So you don't think Bonds of Blood romanticises incest? Or are you talking about other ifs? lol
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Promoting Haterism
- Thread starter solavellan
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Just nah. And while I respect the haterism, I just want to point out some things real quick.
There's this thin line in taboo fiction you see. It's one thing to have a cheating taboo romance, and a whole other thing to **** you biological brother or sister. You see what I'm getting at?
Actually nah, let's make a ****ing ********* fiction! Your standards allow it as long as it is fiction. Nah nah nah, let's ****in romanticize that ****! It's all fiction dude, it's not real. So why not? You already gave Lolita, a perfect example of pedo book that was ****ing banned in a good number of countries. **** the ban, let's romanticize that ****.
Let's romanticize bonds of blood! Where a ****ing almost 40 year old (37 if I remember right) gets a 19 year old girl pregnant! Imagine that ****. Imagine going to high school and seing a 19 year old grope a mf who can be her ****ing dad. Better yet image her taking a leave from school because she's ****ing pregnant!
At some point, you have to realize that you can't hide behind the word fiction. In the past, you had movie directors and authors swatted because of the gruesome things they filmed or wrote about. And that was just for murder.
This is serious mental illness, that anyone can ****ing read about. And when you take into consideration that a young brain that's still looking at things to find meaning finds this ****? Yeah, you can connect the dots.
It's obvious where that one swings, if ya ask meSo you don't think Bonds of Blood romanticises incest? Or are you talking about other ifs? lol
The school shooters fantasised about it first lad/lass. You are killing your own points here, when you said "just because they fantasise a rape fantasy doesn't mean that they want to be raped". No, they just enjoy that **** for the love of the game.
As someone who is well versed in psychology, if you fantasise about something, you want it on some level or the other. I know personally a lass that idolised Lolita as a book and a story and a ****ing theme, so yeah, safe to say I know what I'm talking about here.
So you can call it good look or not, it doesn't really matter. It's bad, plain and simple, just how everything else that you mentioned is bad too.
So I agree with Serpent on all accounts. When that **** hits the IF space and literary space in general, then it is available to everyone. And imagine a 10 year old kid reading about it. The kid may start to think it's normal, depending on their upbringing.
You can't just disregard all of that the way that you did. Because, as Serpent pointed out, you can't hide behind fiction for long
As of right now Bonds of Blood is little more than a pipe dream with zero actual incest content outside of the "creator" saying it's going have incest in it. The same can be said about the IFs on that screenshot Serpent shared too. No point getting pressed about something that A) doesn't exist yet and B) is likely not to exist at all given WIPs die frequently and often. When it actually has something of substance then maybe I'll care about it potentially romanticizing a taboo but even then for something to be romanticizing something it has to either glamorize the taboo or make it appear desirable (usually done by not giving characters that break the taboo consequences for it).
Yeah, my standards allow for it so long as it's not romanticizing the concept and as long as it's fiction. Calling Lolita a pedo book like this tells me you've never read it or if you have read didn't bother to read it with any amount of critical thought; it is also ignoring the fact that despite the POV character being the actual villain of the story Nabokov makes it clear that Humbert Humbert faces real consequences for his sexual exploitation and abuse of Dolores. Like seriously the book ends with him writing a memoir from a prison cell and awaiting trial for his crimes against Dolores.
But I digress. For your next "point" seeing as again this WIP is still largely hypthothetical at this time (and still fictional) and writing characters in a relationship where there's an age gap is barely worth mentioning. The only things that make it iffy (morally at least) is the older character being their employer (and thus in a position of power over them). In most countries 19 is also an adult (and more likely in college not highschool) so unless the character was also grooming the 19-year-old when they were considered a child it still ranks under the 37-year-old being their employer.
Also again, there's nothing there to romanticize because there's nothing actually written past the "creator" saying this is the background for these characters.
Movie directors and authors being swatted for their creative work is the same reasoning as video games making people school shooters. Novels, movies, video games, etc don't cause someone to act out in violent ways and the people who do act out violently are people who needed help prior to them latching on to whatever work they decided to latch on to.
Sorry, lol, I don't believe you to be anyone even remotely versed in psychology if this is your take.
Also let's be ****ing for real going "won't someone think of the children!" is a manipulation tactic used by groups whose main goal is to control what adults consume and not actual concern for children. So unless a WIP (or a book or a movie or whatever) is marketed explicitly for children (and considering a lot of these "creators" want you to pay them to write I highly doubt children are their target demographic) or being marketed in spaces for children then the only people who need to be concerned about a child's internet activity or the creative works they consume is their ****ing parents/guardians and not random strangers they'll never interact with. And yes, Tumblr allows 13-year olds on their platform but that doesn't make every blog on Tumblr a space for children (and it's still their parent's or guardian's responsibility to police what they'll allow their children to interact with).
Lastly, I'll still maintain that this is fictional works we're discussing. So unless a creative work crosses over into real actual harm (ie a crime being commited IRL) that isn't a hypthothetical child who may come across it and somehow needs to be parented by random stranger on the internet because they have zero trusted adults in their life (somehow) I'll maintain that ya'll are just performatively pearl clutching.
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being a victim of incest nd seeing ppl lose their damn minds over it in fiction is laughter inducing. I used to hate incest or pretty much any dark, taboo, disgusting topics featured in fiction. I didn't snap out of such conviction till I saw someone talk abt how harassing/being pressed over pixels/words on a screen is beyond pathetic. I have came to my senses then, realized how you can literally separate fiction from reality. you could enjoy said topics If they're exercised by non-existent characters where no harm or répercussions can befall them, nd still condone acts in REAL LIFE where they happen to REAL PEOPLE nd where actual CONSEQUENCES can be observed and seen. I indulge in incest from time to time because it's intriguing to navigate dynamics safely. the anti taboo topics crowd preach abt morality yet they'd have no problem wishing such harmful acts on actual living ppl. so u have issues nd draw the line with a fictive character being in an incestuous relationship but you have no issue threatening another person with incestuous abuse and r@ape???
This is the only point I can agree with you on. But saying it's in the ****ing dream space doesn't make it good. It shouldn't even be there, period.
Let me put it this way. Money is a fictional concept. Whoever says that it's not is lying to you. It's a piece of paper that someone gave some random value, and now your whole ****ing life revolves around that. Idgaf what the economics say about gold and ****. It's a piece of paper.
So by your logic, should society collapse? Because it's actually being held together by a fiction thing and not something "real and concrete"?
I get what you're saying, but you are getting annoyed by the pixels on screen at the end there. You're either gonna draw the line or not.
And besides, this is the internet! From the very beginning, all the way up until now, you had people commenting kys, **** you you faggot, all the good stuff. That's how internet is. No one gives a **** about it. The only times you should be concerned is if you are doxxed and get death threats based on that. You should probably start to worry then.
And I've seen what you're referencing at the end there, and from what I've seen no one is threatening no one. It was a wish. Not a threat. Huge difference.
Still, why so bothered by pixels on screen? Even deciding to comment on this falls under that category.
Just to clarify that I don't have beef with anyone on here, except the keyboard warriors of Tumblr that lurk here
For me this is all good fun
By this reasoning we can all agree war and murder are also terrible things in reality yes? If so then by your own logic we should not be using them within entertainment media either regardless of whether its a fictional account or not. We can even go further too and list all the ills of reality until we narrow down the acceptable list of topics of things people can enjoy in fiction because according to you fiction equals reality. Let's see... war, murder, human trafficking, domestic violence, mafia, suicide, cannibalism, etc.
Sherlock Holmes? Contains mentions or depictions of murder, prostitution, and other terrible actions. Quite unacceptable.
Lord of the Rings? Contains mentions or depictions of war, murder, etc. Also unacceptable.
The Avengers and related movies (and comics)? Contains mentions or depictions of war, murder, trafficking, etc. Still unacceptable.
I could go on but I think'd you find the list of "acceptable" fiction that doesn't contain some degree of material that people find terrible acts in reality is vanishingly small to such a degree that very few creative works would pass.
I also find it kinda telling that this moral outrage (or more accurately moral panic) you have over taboo topics in fiction doesn't extend to real people telling other real people to kill themselves just because it happens behind the computer screen. It just screams you draw your line at fictional harm happening to fictional characters but real harm perpetuated by humans in reality is just fine to you. A joke even. Who'd actually kill themselves over a throw-away comment on the net? /s
*ETA: For your point about money that doesn't really work since it evolved from the system of bartering goods and services. Technically speaking currency is just whatever we happen to assign value to and the people we're trading with agree on that value (on the level of nations this is usually decided by the local government). You could, theoretically, purchase a parcel of land from someone with a herd of goats and your firstborn child so long as the person with said land agreed it's worth your herd of goats and firstborn child. Or you could trade physical labor in exchange for goods and services as well.
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This is the only point I can agree with you on. But saying it's in the ****ing dream space doesn't make it good. It shouldn't even be there, period.
Let me put it this way. Money is a fictional concept. Whoever says that it's not is lying to you. It's a piece of paper that someone gave some random value, and now your whole ****ing life revolves around that. Idgaf what the economics say about gold and ****. It's a piece of paper.
So by your logic, should society collapse? Because it's actually being held together by a fiction thing and not something "real and concrete"?
I get what you're saying, but you are getting annoyed by the pixels on screen at the end there. You're either gonna draw the line or not.
And besides, this is the internet! From the very beginning, all the way up until now, you had people commenting kys, **** you you faggot, all the good stuff. That's how internet is. No one gives a **** about it. The only times you should be concerned is if you are doxxed and get death threats based on that. You should probably start to worry then.
And I've seen what you're referencing at the end there, and from what I've seen no one is threatening no one. It was a wish. Not a threat. Huge difference.
Still, why so bothered by pixels on screen? Even deciding to comment on this falls under that category.
Just to clarify that I don't have beef with anyone on here, except the keyboard warriors of Tumblr that lurk here
my argument is how ppl are extending their annoyance and disgust over fictional plots to real ppl. they claim to care about victims but turn around and harass ppl over it to the point of wishing harm on whoever creates it. the author of the bonds of blood had already received hate, and anons wished them to be subjected to incest and pedophilia. if these ppl actually cared they'd not let their own displeasure get in the way. if u don't like don't read, block nd move on.
I believe it's a site-wide setting on the forum software they use. Kinda ridiculous imho considering what the site promotes but also not something to get up in arms for. Also when I edit and stuff the curses appear normally it's just when it posts that it gets automatically censored.
This holds no water, since you obviously don't know much. But, if you're curious, search up these three terms: Manipulation, Marketing, PsyOp. Should clear the things right up.
Because sure, starts as fiction so people can more easily acclimate to it. Give it enough time, it becomes normal, maybe a mild annoyance at best, and that is not something that should ever become normal. Just look at the Epstein fiasco. Now you hear the name, and are just laughing at it due to the memes, despite everything that all of that entailed in the beginning. That's when things start to become a problem. That people aren't angry enough anymore
Alas, while this has been a somewhat informative discussion, I don't particularly care about it, despite the fact that we'll probably never see eye to eye, which is fine. Thank you for indulging me either way
Manipulation: aka the hypothetical child you conjured up as a potential victim of fiction that explore taboo themes or violence in order to make yourself "the good guy" because only someone morally repugnant would be against the welfare of a child. See also groups like Moms for Liberty who point at adult media targeted at adults, turn to lazy parents who'd never make the effort to actually educate and discuss uncomfortable topics with their children, and scream for censorship because golly "won't someone think of the children" while not actually caring about said children.
Marketing: Identifying, creating, and promoting things of value to a customer. Please see below with PsyOp cause this doesn't mean anything in the context of the conversation.
PsyOp: A term that describes military's engaging in psychological warfare. I think the real term your looking for here (and with marketing too) is propaganda but either of them wouldn't really pertain to the conversation at hand unless the specific body of work is seeking to influence public opinion towards a specific agenda. Which you can maybe make the case if said work is romanticizing a taboo topic but really doesn't work if they explore it seriously without omitting the negative consequences that come with the breaking of such taboos.
Please tell me if any of these sounds off to you oh wise one.
Same to you. Been fun even with the somewhat caustic replies at each other xD.Alas, while this has been a somewhat informative discussion, I don't particularly care about it, despite the fact that we'll probably never see eye to eye, which is fine. Thank you for indulging me either way
Altering someone psychologically in a way you want them to. I think that fits the bill, and am not really sure of what you just said, though I do get your point. I will be the first to call bullshit on ai surveillance due to "children safety risks", because that's just a bunch of bollocks. But aside from that branch of it, look back at my first sentence here
I guess this one is on me. Should have said propaganda as you pointed out, even though those two things are somewhat one and the same. (small differences)
But the relevancy of it is in the fact that you're creating something that's to be distributed to people at large for free. Spreading the message you want, in hopes of achieving something (we return to manipulation here)
You said it yourself. Just excuse the military part
In layman terms, but the details of it is that it's manipulation that's used as a way to psychologically degrade and ruin someone in the long run. First it's allowed, then it becomes normal, and then it becomes a trend. In the beginning you had women's rights (I'm cool with this normal feminism. I'm very much not cool with the modern feminism, just to clarify
), and now you have Clancy defenders who look at star signs to prove that she's innocent of killing her three children, because she's a ****ing Leo. Or Tate fans who just completely disregard the human trafficking he's done because he's an "alpha male". That's how psyops work, to make you a compliant little slave to someone (been happening here where I live for a very long time)And that it's how all three are connected to the conversation at hand
Hey, I'm all for those
People usually find me to be a bit of a dick for sounding the way that I do, when I simply think of this as a neutral debate/conversation. It's just that people are quick to offend when someone doesn't agree with themYou are trying to describe the Overtone Window (aka how to get unacceptable things acceptable in public eye). That's the term for it.
And here I thought my 'I'm not paying for unfinished crap and side stories I don't own' was enough. I'm clearly a baby hater because what is going on in this thread.
Thank you! I didn't know of the official term, since english is not my first language, so my knowledge only goes so far
Obviously
And while I can consider myself quite a hater, I think that my man Serpent either gives me a run for my money, or is waaaay above meCan't blame the lad though. I appreciate the emotional kind of people like him. At least he has heart
I wouldn't mind the incest fics if they weren't written by only children whose only experience with incest in fiction is booktok and step brother fics on Wattpad.
Then again, the sudden rise in incest fics is because no one has friends anymore. A lot of these incest stories are just repackaged childhood best friend ****.
Then again, the sudden rise in incest fics is because no one has friends anymore. A lot of these incest stories are just repackaged childhood best friend ****.
I hate to break it to you..........................................
Wait, just because of that?? Actually you know what? I see what you say, I see you
Imagine being a lonely retard and turning towards fictional sibling ****ing because of that. Could never be me, or anyone normal for that matter
Thank you for bringing this to my attention again. I just love it when people who deserve hate actually end up suffering
Also, why do you think that is? If there's nothing to hate there, why would they receive hate?That's not a conversation you're ready to have
I also want to take a moment to thank @solavellan for bringing us this gem that is haterism thread
Truly a place that I can call home