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Stories that left you disappointed for a reason

God

Well-known member
Member
I agree. Unlike most people on reddit, I actually rate SOH. I hear people saying Wayhaven is better than SOH and I'm like wth are you taking about? Wayhaven is a good romance IF. That's it. Otherwise I wouldn't compare it with SOH.
Me who has a low opinion of both hiding, I used to love SOH but really don’t like linear stories much, but my taste of anime and manga changed a few years back and I can’t help, but cringe at SOH. Just aren’t my medium anymore, for Wayhaven I was an A romancer and I just got fed up tbh plus MC bothered me too. I’d rate them both good for what they are trying to be and genre imo. I won’t be in a rush to play either and SOH I think I dropped like book 3 or 4 so I’ll pass.
 

Gone_Dead

Well-known member
Member
Me who has a low opinion of both hiding, I used to love SOH but really don’t like linear stories much, but my taste of anime and manga changed a few years back and I can’t help, but cringe at SOH. Just aren’t my medium anymore, for Wayhaven I was an A romancer and I just got fed up tbh plus MC bothered me too. I’d rate them both good for what they are trying to be and genre imo. I won’t be in a rush to play either and SOH I think I dropped like book 3 or 4 so I’ll pass.
I understand. There's a bunch of cringe scenes that I tend to ignore. I barely scrolled through book 4. I'm not a fan of linear books in general but I can suffer through it if the world building and characters are good. SOH has its faults but in no way is it a bad book.
 

God

Well-known member
Member
I understand. There's a bunch of cringe scenes that I tend to ignore. I barely scrolled through book 4. I'm not a fan of linear books in general but I can suffer through it if the world building and characters are good. SOH has its faults but in no way is it a bad book.
Yeah think last manga/anime medium I got into was TOG manhwa Like I was never into it heavily anyways but when covid hit I just never went back to anime or manga. I still know about a lot from memes and such. Feel like I know whole JJK story not reading or watching a second just from memes tbh. I will say SOH is good at what it wants to be, I will say if a certain romance option is true it really is living up to its anime comparisons
 

Achilles

Member
Member
I don’t know why nobody is talking about how Kingdoms and Empires has become so shitty lately. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion since everyone is too busy d***riding the author like he’s writing the second coming of Tolkien, but let’s be honest it’s just not good anymore.

It used to be a simple, captivating story with actual direction. The rebirth plot, the goddess, the clear mission, it had flow, purpose. But now? We’re stuck in this painfully boring-*** childhood arc, meeting one annoying character after another in scenes that drag on forever. Like bruh, what even was that whole Sukkar or "sugar" scene? That was straight-up garbage. I don’t know what kind of emotional payoff the author thought that was delivering, but it just felt obnoxious and forced.

And now these massive walls of text that aren’t even fun to read. And not the kind that pulls you in, these are the kind that make you start skimming halfway through and wondering why you're even still reading this mess. It’s like he’s trying to pad out word count with zero substance. The adult characters are cartoonish as hell and there’s barely any realism in the world anymore. I get it’s fantasy, the MC’s reborn in another world and all but even fantasy needs internal logic, and this ain’t it. It’s just lore dump after lore dump now. No emotional core, no grounded tension, just endless exposition.

It honestly feels like the author just wants to make it “deep” for the sake of it, but it’s not working. It’s just bloated, directionless, and painfully unfun to read now. The charm is gone. The pacing’s a mess. And worst of all I actually used to love this game. Now I just feel like I’m hate-reading it out of loyalty.
 

God

Well-known member
Member
I don’t know why nobody is talking about how Kingdoms and Empires has become so shitty lately. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion since everyone is too busy d***riding the author like he’s writing the second coming of Tolkien, but let’s be honest it’s just not good anymore.

It used to be a simple, captivating story with actual direction. The rebirth plot, the goddess, the clear mission, it had flow, purpose. But now? We’re stuck in this painfully boring-*** childhood arc, meeting one annoying character after another in scenes that drag on forever. Like bruh, what even was that whole Sukkar or "sugar" scene? That was straight-up garbage. I don’t know what kind of emotional payoff the author thought that was delivering, but it just felt obnoxious and forced.

And now these massive walls of text that aren’t even fun to read. And not the kind that pulls you in, these are the kind that make you start skimming halfway through and wondering why you're even still reading this mess. It’s like he’s trying to pad out word count with zero substance. The adult characters are cartoonish as hell and there’s barely any realism in the world anymore. I get it’s fantasy, the MC’s reborn in another world and all but even fantasy needs internal logic, and this ain’t it. It’s just lore dump after lore dump now. No emotional core, no grounded tension, just endless exposition.

It honestly feels like the author just wants to make it “deep” for the sake of it, but it’s not working. It’s just bloated, directionless, and painfully unfun to read now. The charm is gone. The pacing’s a mess. And worst of all I actually used to love this game. Now I just feel like I’m hate-reading it out of loyalty.
Idk the point of the rewrites tbh, just know it originally reached the birthday arc. Making side stories and what not. It was good imo idk the reason for the rewrites, I tried new demo but imo it was just something off, the new structure of goddess visiting in dreams now, also making new childhood scenes??? Bro our complaint was too much childhood so you decide to invent new scenes…. Just wait until the IF authors learn about milking I wouldn’t be surprised if FF was the first to start the milking trend. I’m saying this and he’s one of my favorite authors but this is getting too sus. Also he hasn’t heard about show don’t tell, all his world building is through lore drops like chill
 
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Gone_Dead

Well-known member
Member
I don’t know why nobody is talking about how Kingdoms and Empires has become so shitty lately. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion since everyone is too busy d***riding the author like he’s writing the second coming of Tolkien, but let’s be honest it’s just not good anymore.

It used to be a simple, captivating story with actual direction. The rebirth plot, the goddess, the clear mission, it had flow, purpose. But now? We’re stuck in this painfully boring-*** childhood arc, meeting one annoying character after another in scenes that drag on forever. Like bruh, what even was that whole Sukkar or "sugar" scene? That was straight-up garbage. I don’t know what kind of emotional payoff the author thought that was delivering, but it just felt obnoxious and forced.

And now these massive walls of text that aren’t even fun to read. And not the kind that pulls you in, these are the kind that make you start skimming halfway through and wondering why you're even still reading this mess. It’s like he’s trying to pad out word count with zero substance. The adult characters are cartoonish as hell and there’s barely any realism in the world anymore. I get it’s fantasy, the MC’s reborn in another world and all but even fantasy needs internal logic, and this ain’t it. It’s just lore dump after lore dump now. No emotional core, no grounded tension, just endless exposition.

It honestly feels like the author just wants to make it “deep” for the sake of it, but it’s not working. It’s just bloated, directionless, and painfully unfun to read now. The charm is gone. The pacing’s a mess. And worst of all I actually used to love this game. Now I just feel like I’m hate-reading it out of loyalty.
The old demo was fine imo. Idk why he decided to do a rewrite. I enjoyed the old demo although the childhood was kinda getting stretched. I think hes doing a rewrite so that he can better minimize the childhood and compartmentalize the story. The lore he's written is so vast so he should just reveal relevant lore as it comes into coversation and make the rest optional. Even then I think he finds it difficult to figure out when and where to stop the lore exposition.

The new demo is just so off for some reason. The paraphrasing seems weird, the structure too. Too many unnecessary side content. He's stretching this festival arc too much imo. He's a good author but he's bad at putting it on paper is what I can conclude. Characters and dialogue is good but there's just so much clutter which he could do without.

Other than that I don't see any issues. I actually love that he puts so much effort into the lore but sometimes it's what undoes his work in the end. He needs to figure out when and how to say no to himself.
 

God

Well-known member
Member
The old demo was fine imo. Idk why he decided to do a rewrite. I enjoyed the old demo although the childhood was kinda getting stretched. I think hes doing a rewrite so that he can better minimize the childhood and compartmentalize the story. The lore he's written is so vast so he should just reveal relevant lore as it comes into coversation and make the rest optional. Even then I think he finds it difficult to figure out when and where to stop the lore exposition.

The new demo is just so off for some reason. The paraphrasing seems weird, the structure too. Too many unnecessary side content. He's stretching this festival arc too much imo. He's a good author but he's bad at putting it on paper is what I can conclude. Characters and dialogue is good but there's just so much clutter which he could do without.

Other than that I don't see any issues. I actually love that he puts so much effort into the lore but sometimes it's what undoes his work in the end. He needs to figure out when and how to say no to himself.
Yup it’s great, top 5 potential imo. I think what happens is he gets asked a lore question and does not know the answer so he goes and create a whole new lore from scratch and gets caught up in it. I think he was one of the Authors that said he found Mac boring though, and one of the reasons he created the side story. I wonder how romance was changed because pretty sure he’s been getting pressured to change it since the beginning. He had a great idea since he wanted to keep it real life accurate, but some hated the idea that they’d have to give up the seat or have fake marriage if they choose same *** relationships. It is a hard place to be in because realistically you need heirs, and that’s why they said just make Aurelian the heir. Hard choices for him. My theory is Rem seems like his favorite character to me tbh and I feel like his death is approaching and he’s dreading writing it.
 

Gone_Dead

Well-known member
Member
Yup it’s great, top 5 potential imo. I think what happens is he gets asked a lore question and does not know the answer so he goes and create a whole new lore from scratch and gets caught up in it. I think he was one of the Authors that said he found Mac boring though, and one of the reasons he created the side story. I wonder how romance was changed because pretty sure he’s been getting pressured to change it since the beginning. He had a great idea since he wanted to keep it real life accurate, but some hated the idea that they’d have to give up the seat or have fake marriage if they choose same *** relationships. It is a hard place to be in because realistically you need heirs, and that’s why they said just make Aurelian the heir. Hard choices for him. My theory is Rem seems like his favorite character to me tbh and I feel like his death is approaching and he’s dreading writing it.
I remember. The fans kinda bullied him into a rewrite imo. He seems like a great dude and he looks to genuinely love writing, else no one would put in so much work to write lore and past events. He'd do well as an actual novelist. I remember long back when he said that gay MC's would be forced to have heirs anyway and people didn't take it well. So he started to dull the grittiness of the world.

I feel bad for him tho. I once sent him an ask in Tumblr complimenting his lore and world building and he said that he appreciates my words and that unfortunately not all share my sentiments. The way he answers asks in Tumblr tell me has the general outline of the IF figured out long ago but he just struggles to paste it into IF medium. But the fact that he actually listens to the fans is a good thing but I sometimes think he listens too much.
 

Fuffff

Member
Member
I don’t know why nobody is talking about how Kingdoms and Empires has become so shitty lately. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion since everyone is too busy d***riding the author like he’s writing the second coming of Tolkien, but let’s be honest it’s just not good anymore.

It used to be a simple, captivating story with actual direction. The rebirth plot, the goddess, the clear mission, it had flow, purpose. But now? We’re stuck in this painfully boring-*** childhood arc, meeting one annoying character after another in scenes that drag on forever. Like bruh, what even was that whole Sukkar or "sugar" scene? That was straight-up garbage. I don’t know what kind of emotional payoff the author thought that was delivering, but it just felt obnoxious and forced.

And now these massive walls of text that aren’t even fun to read. And not the kind that pulls you in, these are the kind that make you start skimming halfway through and wondering why you're even still reading this mess. It’s like he’s trying to pad out word count with zero substance. The adult characters are cartoonish as hell and there’s barely any realism in the world anymore. I get it’s fantasy, the MC’s reborn in another world and all but even fantasy needs internal logic, and this ain’t it. It’s just lore dump after lore dump now. No emotional core, no grounded tension, just endless exposition.

It honestly feels like the author just wants to make it “deep” for the sake of it, but it’s not working. It’s just bloated, directionless, and painfully unfun to read now. The charm is gone. The pacing’s a mess. And worst of all I actually used to love this game. Now I just feel like I’m hate-reading it out of loyalty.
I've followed Kingdoms and empires since its first release and even joined the exclusive discord for those who had the early access. At the start, the author was visibly excited, writing new content every day. The main problem was that instead of continuing the story, he kept rewriting it and focusing on side stories for characters. After all this time, the main plot has barely progressed by 1%. He's the type of author who focuses way too much in world building.
 

Vamp-kun

Well-known member
Member
I agree with you, when I used to follow this author it always seemed like they would constantly defend Luceris’ actions. The child marriage thing is still sick to me 😂 and like someone else said, it hasn't been all that relevant in the story. Maybe later down the line it will be, but I don't know. Also, not to downplay anyones trauma but compared to what he did to the MC, him losing ONE person he loved is nowhere near as bad. And he gets to move on and have his happily ever after, while the MC will never get to see their loved ones again. This man isn't redeemable in my eyes, I try to look at things from both sides, but his irrational treatment of the MC makes him a completely unsympathetic character to me. It almost feels like his crappy choices are being rewarded.
Does anyone remember Dragon Age Origins back from 2009? Where Bioware had explicitly stated that they took inspiration from Game of Thrones? You know, with Arl Howe brutally murdering EVERYTHING at castle Cousland and the protagonist being the only one left alive? Remember? ✨ Remember ✨?

Those writers had a similar ideology to the writer of ACoAaF. The payoff in that game was inserted into the protagonist's playthrough nicely.

Then what in the seven gates of hell happened between 2009 and 2025 to have a similar plot get way more creepy and having the murderous villain as a figurehead to be lusted at?¡?
 
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Gone_Dead

Well-known member
Member
Does anyone remember Dragon Age Origins back from 2009? Where Bioware had explicitly stated that they took inspiration from Game of Thrones? You know, with Arl Howe brutally murdering EVERYTHING at castle Cousland and the protagonist being the only one left alive? Remember? ✨ Remember ✨?

Those writers had a similar ideology to the writer of ACoAaF. The payoff in that game was inserted into the protagonist's playthrough nicely.

Then what in the seven gates of hell happened between 2009 and 2025 to have a similar plot get way more creepy and having the murderous villain as a figured to be lusted at?¡?
Man i loved gutting Howe. Bastard deserved worse. During the meeting with Howe and Loghain in the Denerim estate, we can properly threaten Howe when he hides behind Loghain. And also, we can stare him down during his dying moments not giving a **** about his monologue to the point Howe gets insecure about himself and dies like the ***** he was in life. That is what you call a proper payoff in a choice based narrative driven game.
 

Vamp-kun

Well-known member
Member
I remember. The fans kinda bullied him into a rewrite imo. He seems like a great dude and he looks to genuinely love writing, else no one would put in so much work to write lore and past events. He'd do well as an actual novelist. I remember long back when he said that gay MC's would be forced to have heirs anyway and people didn't take it well. So he started to dull the grittiness of the world.

I feel bad for him tho. I once sent him an ask in Tumblr complimenting his lore and world building and he said that he appreciates my words and that unfortunately not all share my sentiments. The way he answers asks in Tumblr tell me has the general outline of the IF figured out long ago but he just struggles to paste it into IF medium. But the fact that he actually listens to the fans is a good thing but I sometimes think he listens too much.
In my opinion, he should just write his very own book series with lots of special spin-offs, have his own Jon Snow style protagonist to do all the Isekai things the author wants him to, and write his own lore encyclopedia with no interruptions.

Forget about the rewrites! That scene, as it was unchanged, in the carriage attack with the brave knights fighting the monsters with their semi-enchanted weapons awoke something joyful and happy inside the writhing darkness of my heart, that I thought to have been lost to the endless night of eternity.....
 

seneya

Well-known member
Member
Then what in the seven gates of hell happened between 2009 and 2025 to have a similar plot get way more creepy and having the murderous villain as a figurehead to be lusted at?¡?
Stories, at least IF ones, became less about telling a story and more about self-insertion and wish-fulfillment, and also more, for the lack of a better term, sexualized. Said murderous villain is attractive with a tragic background, and really that was all that was needed.

That is what you call a proper payoff in a choice based narrative driven game.
That involves writing a game where the goal isn't just to bang someone.
 
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Lovecraft

Well-known member
Member
Stories, at least IF ones, became less about telling a story and more about self-insertion and wish-fulfillment, and also more, for the lack of a better term, sexualized. Said murderous villain is attractive with a tragic background, and really that was all that was needed.
It's just like evolution except its going backwards
 
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Vamp-kun

Well-known member
Member
That involves writing a game where the goal isn't just to bang someone.
So, I guess now it is? Then it shouldn't have been advertised as a revenge plot in the first place.
The author should have just wrote a harem novel and everybody would be happy doing business.
But, I guess that's the future of most IF's.

We'll bang, ok?
~Commander Shepard
 

mrstankylegs

Active member
Member
Where are y'all getting these IFs where you bang people as the goal. Apart from C.C. Hill content (which is decent enough), all I find is incomplete games with romance that goes nowhere or Tumblr post with ROs introduction and in order to get any content you gotta send asks or pay for POVs/Side stories forver (while the main storyline never gets finished.) Sorry for being a hater but good lord, if ONLY we have an abundance of IFs with enough content for there to be banging and boinking and not just, like, a moodbord and Tumblr asks for NSFW alphabets.

Game where you bang people as the goal still involve writing, and for many different variables to accomodate different MCs (if they care to) and we don't often get that far.

(Who remembers when AtoC made this HUGE deal about *** scenes, created an entire NSFW sideblog, then literally just went 'Yeah actually I thought about it fr and it's a lot of work so I'm not gonna do it no more'? So funny. You didn't think of that before??)
 

seneya

Well-known member
Member
Where are y'all getting these IFs where you bang people as the goal.
It was an exaggeration on my part, but basically I was referring to how romance seems to be more important than anything else. The plot can be sh@t, worldbuilding can be sh@t, there can be inconsistencies and plot holes the size of the moon, but who cares, ROs! (and yes, horny tumblr asks when there's basically zero content written yet do prove this point)
And this in turn affects some authors, who then center their stories around ROs with everything else as an afterthought. Such as with the ACoAaF example above, where all the death and trauma are basically just there as a background, and everyone is too busy fawning over characters to ever question it.
Game where you bang people as the goal still involve writing
I like the AVNs that bother with worldbuilding and character development. Come for the s e x, stay for the plot kind of games. That's what I was getting at basically, a lot of things go into making a good story/game, but the increased focus on self-gratification means that anything that doesn't make the player feel good gets discarded as meaningless.
Not sure if this makes sense lol, but it's basically the best I can explain it.
 

mrstankylegs

Active member
Member
It was an exaggeration on my part, but basically I was referring to how romance seems to be more important than anything else. The plot can be sh@t, worldbuilding can be sh@t, there can be inconsistencies and plot holes the size of the moon, but who cares, ROs! (and yes, horny tumblr asks when there's basically zero content written yet do prove this point)
And this in turn affects some authors, who then center their stories around ROs with everything else as an afterthought. Such as with the ACoAaF example above, where all the death and trauma are basically just there as a background, and everyone is too busy fawning over characters to ever question it.

I like the AVNs that bother with worldbuilding and character development. Come for the s e x, stay for the plot kind of games. That's what I was getting at basically, a lot of things go into making a good story/game, but the increased focus on self-gratification means that anything that doesn't make the player feel good gets discarded as meaningless.
Not sure if this makes sense lol, but it's basically the best I can explain it.

Nah don't worry, it made sense enough. I get what you mean, was just tickled cause like... If only we had that and not just an exaggeration!, you know? Sexualized, gratituiouss, whatever, it'd still be something, but as you said, we usually get less than nothing. (Or like yourstalkeroutside said, if only ACoAaF was a 'romaticized stockholm syndrome simulator.' Not because then it would be good, but because then it'd at least succeed at doing one thing right.)

Ironically, now that you mention it, there are many NSFW games I enjoy [AVNs, or text-based HTMLs] with really good worldbuilding/characters even though they aim to be p0rn first, and a game/
story second. You'd think IFs would be where you get that good, blanaced 'Come for the s e x, stay for the plot kind of games', but from my experience it's kinda the opposite.

Slapping myself rn not to jump back on ACoAaF's ahh again now that you mentioned it LMAO. Maybe the real lesson for me here is to stay clear from IFs with 'crown', and 'throne' in the title ....
 

Vamp-kun

Well-known member
Member
Where are y'all getting these IFs where you bang people as the goal. Apart from C.C. Hill content (which is decent enough), all I find is incomplete games with romance that goes nowhere or Tumblr post with ROs introduction and in order to get any content you gotta send asks or pay for POVs/Side stories forver (while the main storyline never gets finished.) Sorry for being a hater but good lord, if ONLY we have an abundance of IFs with enough content for there to be banging and boinking and not just, like, a moodbord and Tumblr asks for NSFW alphabets.

Game where you bang people as the goal still involve writing, and for many different variables to accomodate different MCs (if they care to) and we don't often get that far.

(Who remembers when AtoC made this HUGE deal about *** scenes, created an entire NSFW sideblog, then literally just went 'Yeah actually I thought about it fr and it's a lot of work so I'm not gonna do it no more'? So funny. You didn't think of that before??)
Of we've thought about! But the Patreon Scam Initiative has to scam!
 
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