Stories that left you disappointed for a reason

[Kim-Tong]

I’d like to share my thoughts… and I’m really curious to hear yours about this in ZESH. So, here we go:

It’s pretty strange how Kevin doesn’t seem to respect Madison’s romantic relationship with the MC. I mean, he flirts with her (sometimes even right in front of the MC), stares at her, and stays close to her with obvious ulterior motives. And of course, there’s that photo of Madison he keeps with him… as we see in Part 4 of the game.

I’ve also always found Madison’s reactions to all this a bit odd. Even though she loves the MC and insists that Kevin is “just a friend” and nothing more, I can’t help but notice how much she cares about Kevin — and, honestly, it feels like she cares *too much* for just a friend (if you know what I mean).

To me, Madison has always given off the impression that deep down, she has some unresolved feelings when it comes to Kevin. Maybe she’s even a bit torn between the MC and Kevin? JUST MAYBE, MAYBE...a little maybe. I think it’s implied, but not outright stated in the game. I don’t know… it’s all kind of confusing

What do you guys think?

This is one of the points that causes me the most conflict with ZESH. For a game so complex, with already exaggerated customization options—an inventory system, base defense, research and possible modification of the zombie virus, hacking, etc.—it's frustrating that the story or scenarios don't vary based on the MC's stats. Why doesn't an MC with high Strength just beat Kevin to death "Negan-style," or a very intelligent one clearly explain to Madison why Kevin is a weirdo, or a very charismatic one capable of threatening Kevin to stop or face death? It makes me lose the desire to play, knowing that everything is resolved by what Jim wants to advance the plot, and not by the MC's stats.

What's worse is that in Part IV, when the idiot Kevin is kidnapped, the MC can refuse or hesitate to save him, but because Jim absolutely needs to introduce new factions and didn't feel like creating an alternate route where Kevin is dead or permanently kidnapped, he decided to force the MC to go to protect Jaime, or some other excuse. Again, ignoring the player's decisions in a decision-based game, or a person's normal reaction to the news that the idiot who wouldn't stop harassing them and their partner (Madison) was finally kidnapped, giving the MC a way out where they don't have to get rid of Kevin themselves.

And I am completely sure that the supposed new infidelity system was suggested by people on Discord; I don't have proof, but I have no doubts either.

 

[spacetree]

I just remembered this and i'm sure people here have said it but fields of apshodel and blood of the living has such a great premise but terrible execution and it's all because the author writes dialogue as if they've never been socialize to normal people instead of chronically online people whose entire identity is just their orientation/gender like that game is the reason why i started doubting if COG even actually had editors

100% agree. It's also what I think of The King's Hound, super cool premise but then you go to play it and every character talks in therapy-speak and coddles you for your arranged marriage and everyone gets along and there's no conflict. The whiplash between the title/synopsis and the actual game is so big.

 

[solavellan]

100% agree. It's also what I think of The King's Hound, super cool premise but then you go to play it and every character talks in therapy-speak and coddles you for your arranged marriage and everyone gets along and there's no conflict. The whiplash between the title/synopsis and the actual game is so big.

They try to hard to be so f*cking progressive and inclusive they just end up doing a stereotype lmfao

 

[LK5]

This is one of the points that causes me the most conflict with ZESH. For a game so complex, with already exaggerated customization options—an inventory system, base defense, research and possible modification of the zombie virus, hacking, etc.—it's frustrating that the story or scenarios don't vary based on the MC's stats. Why doesn't an MC with high Strength just beat Kevin to death "Negan-style," or a very intelligent one clearly explain to Madison why Kevin is a weirdo, or a very charismatic one capable of threatening Kevin to stop or face death? It makes me lose the desire to play, knowing that everything is resolved by what Jim wants to advance the plot, and not by the MC's stats.

What's worse is that in Part IV, when the idiot Kevin is kidnapped, the MC can refuse or hesitate to save him, but because Jim absolutely needs to introduce new factions and didn't feel like creating an alternate route where Kevin is dead or permanently kidnapped, he decided to force the MC to go to protect Jaime, or some other excuse. Again, ignoring the player's decisions in a decision-based game, or a person's normal reaction to the news that the idiot who wouldn't stop harassing them and their partner (Madison) was finally kidnapped, giving the MC a way out where they don't have to get rid of Kevin themselves.

And I am completely sure that the supposed new infidelity system was suggested by people on Discord; I don't have proof, but I have no doubts either.

Jim's problem is listening to his readers. You can literally read it in the forum comments, he changed the story and his characters at their request

I hated it when he killed Reilly's mother, the only funny character in the game

 

[CQ2205]

Jim's problem is listening to his readers. You can literally read it in the forum comments, he changed the story and his characters at their request

I hated it when he killed Reilly's mother, the only funny character in the game

It’s not just Jim, it’s all the authors. The story starts out as A, and then people keep begging to add stuff to the IF like poly, more drama, or like ZESH, an infidelity system, etc. And before you know it, the author has listened to them so much that the story that used to be A turned into the whole alphabet, with nothing to do with the original anymore.

Constructive changes? Sure, that’s fine. But doing a full 360 on your entire IF just because people asked? Please, just stop already ️

 

[CQ2205]

For some reason it bugged out and posted what I said twice, just ignore that. I have no idea how to delete it.

 

[solavellan]

It’s not just Jim, it’s all the authors. The story starts out as A, and then people keep begging to add stuff to the IF like poly, more drama, or like ZESH, an infidelity system, etc. And before you know it, the author has listened to them so much that the story that used to be A turned into the whole alphabet, with nothing to do with the original anymore.

Constructive changes? Sure, that’s fine. But doing a full 360 on your entire IF just because people asked? Please, just stop already ️

Atp they should just release two versions of the IF, the OG and then a public appeasement version lmfao

 

[BiscuitB]

It’s not just Jim, it’s all the authors. The story starts out as A, and then people keep begging to add stuff to the IF like poly, more drama, or like ZESH, an infidelity system, etc. And before you know it, the author has listened to them so much that the story that used to be A turned into the whole alphabet, with nothing to do with the original anymore.

Constructive changes? Sure, that’s fine. But doing a full 360 on your entire IF just because people asked? Please, just stop already ️

The problem with that nowadays, its some just simply can't take construction changes or critism of their work. I totally get that there's a lot of authors who get hate, from just simply saying your items is crap to racist, homophobic etc. So it's when there's a genuine comment peoples perception makes it seems its rude when it's not. So what happens now is they get mollycoddle and all that love a praise in a bubble will make them change it cause they need the attention and "value" that comes with it.

You see it all the time on tumblr, someone comments something constructive, and it's viewed as "aggressive", or "rude" and all the fans and other IF authors cling to their side agreeing without actually looking at it with the proper context.

 

[Parallax]

100% agree. It's also what I think of The King's Hound, super cool premise but then you go to play it and every character talks in therapy-speak and coddles you for your arranged marriage and everyone gets along and there's no conflict. The whiplash between the title/synopsis and the actual game is so big.

On the one hand we have IFs with a very toxic approach to the main character (Infamous, Crown of Ashes, that other wip of remember you die's author), and on the other... this. Extremes, extremes.

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

Minor pet peeve, but a lot of IF writers (or just wannabe writers nowadays in general) fail the most basic writing rule: show, don't tell. Like it's just pages upon pages of info dumps with very little attempt of description or pacing. The sad part is that none of these writers will improve because they'll just get a following of yes men or throw a tantrum when you point out that they aren't the next Shakespeare.

This post was inspired by me coming across a demo called Salvador Book one on the Cogdemos site and wanting to take a red pen to it like an English teacher correcting an essay.

 

[solavellan]

Minor pet peeve, but a lot of IF writers (or just wannabe writers nowadays in general) fail the most basic writing rule: show, don't tell. Like it's just pages upon pages of info dumps with very little attempt of description or pacing. The sad part is that none of these writers will improve because they'll just get a following of yes men or throw a tantrum when you point out that they aren't the next Shakespeare.

This post was inspired by me coming across a demo called Salvador Book one on the Cogdemos site and wanting to take a red pen to it like an English teacher correcting an essay.

Understandable lol but it's so easy to say show, don't tell but harder to grasp especially if they're starting out. Writing is a skill and like all skills it has to be honed lol let them take their time honing it, let them trip a little bit because sooner or later they'd realize they need to get better.

Everyone has to start somewhere and if we want well written stories we gotta accept that every writer will have that badly written one at the start. Besides IFs are a unique medium of itself and a niche so some of them probably didn't start learning how to write fiction at an early age or maybe they just got into reading and stumbled into this niche lol

Feel the annoyance but look upon it with mild amusement god knows it's the only thing keeping me from losing it with the quality of releases cog has been having for a while now

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

Understandable lol but it's so easy to say show, don't tell but harder to grasp especially if they're starting out. Writing is a skill and like all skills it has to be honed lol let them take their time honing it, let them trip a little bit because sooner or later they'd realize they need to get better.

Everyone has to start somewhere and if we want well written stories we gotta accept that every writer will have that badly written one at the start. Besides IFs are a unique medium of itself and a niche so some of them probably didn't start learning how to write fiction at an early age or maybe they just got into reading and stumbled into this niche lol

Feel the annoyance but look upon it with mild amusement god knows it's the only thing keeping me from losing it with the quality of releases cog has been having for a while now

There's a reason it's only a minor pet peeve. Sometimes I come across stuff I wrote a year ago and cringe at how awful they are. My real grimace really has to do with how these writers deal with criticism or any negative commentary on their works. I came across an old thread on the COG forums about someone asking the HG releases had some sort of standard, to which there was someone calling it racist and xenophobic to want proper English in something you are paying for.

When this is the environment that new writers are coming into, they aren't going to learn that their writing sucks, they are going to be cuddled and told that they're already the best which is not going to help them improve. Which reflects on the releases we're seeing today. Show, don' t tell is easier said than done, but I keep coming across so many stories that fail the absolute basics of writing getting gassed up like it's good.

It really is as annoying as it is amusing.

 

[solavellan]

There's a reason it's only a minor pet peeve. Sometimes I come across stuff I wrote a year ago and cringe at how awful they are. My real grimace really has to do with how these writers deal with criticism or any negative commentary on their works. I came across an old thread on the COG forums about someone asking the HG releases had some sort of standard, to which there was someone calling it racist and xenophobic to want proper English in something you are paying for.

When this is the environment that new writers are coming into, they aren't going to learn that their writing sucks, they are going to be cuddled and told that they're already the best which is not going to help them improve. Which reflects on the releases we're seeing today. Show, don' t tell is easier said than done, but I keep coming across so many stories that fail the absolute basics of writing getting gassed up like it's good.

It really is as annoying as it is amusing.

Eh if there's anything consistent with internet fame and tumblr echo chambers it's that multiple someone's will always burst their bubble.

'sides they make for good entertainment.

 

[spacetree]

There's a reason it's only a minor pet peeve. Sometimes I come across stuff I wrote a year ago and cringe at how awful they are. My real grimace really has to do with how these writers deal with criticism or any negative commentary on their works. I came across an old thread on the COG forums about someone asking the HG releases had some sort of standard, to which there was someone calling it racist and xenophobic to want proper English in something you are paying for.

When this is the environment that new writers are coming into, they aren't going to learn that their writing sucks, they are going to be cuddled and told that they're already the best which is not going to help them improve. Which reflects on the releases we're seeing today. Show, don' t tell is easier said than done, but I keep coming across so many stories that fail the absolute basics of writing getting gassed up like it's good.

It really is as annoying as it is amusing.

To be fair to authors, what we read on cogdemos is usually the first draft before revisions and edits are made. Most authors get beta readers when a book gets into finishing stages (IF it gets there lmfao), so ideally the worst mistakes should get smoothed over before publication. (keyword: ideally lol)

 

[solavellan]

To be fair to authors, what we read on cogdemos is usually the first draft before revisions and edits are made. Most authors get beta readers when a book gets into finishing stages (IF it gets there lmfao), so ideally the worst mistakes should get smoothed over before publication. (keyword: ideally lol)

Lmfao that word, ideally, is in bold and capital letters with an asterisk at the end.

(Formorian war, fields of asphodel are first in mind lmfao)

 

[game_hunt3r]

100% agree. It's also what I think of The King's Hound, super cool premise but then you go to play it and every character talks in therapy-speak and coddles you for your arranged marriage and everyone gets along and there's no conflict.

This always pulls me out of stories too. Especially since most of them are supposed to be taking place in gritty, morally ambigious or very difficult settings for the main character: an arranged marriage to an enemy you fought against, for example. Or when it comes to Fields of Asphodel, a sheltered minor deity/half-god forced to live in a land that goes against their very nature with a group of people who dislike Olympians and married to a major god they've heard scary stories of their whole life. Then you meet the characters and everyone is open-hearted and accepting, and wanting to invite you over for tea. It's like the IF version of Kidz Bop.

Another thing that bothers me is when characters introduce themselves by both name and pronouns, it's usually redundant because in the narration the author has already described them as either male, female or non-binary, and it just makes them all sound weird. For example: Cade's golden hair brushed through his fingers and he gave you a nod. "Cade Abraham. I go by he/him". Like--no **** you do?? The author already pointed it out.

 

[spacetree]

This always pulls me out of stories too. Especially since most of them are supposed to be taking place in gritty, morally ambigious or very difficult settings for the main character: an arranged marriage to an enemy you fought against, for example. Or when it comes to Fields of Asphodel, a sheltered minor deity/half-god forced to live in a land that goes against their very nature with a group of people who dislike Olympians and married to a major god they've heard scary stories of their whole life. Then you meet the characters and everyone is open-hearted and accepting, and wanting to invite you over for tea. It's like the IF version of Kidz Bop.

Another thing that bothers me is when characters introduce themselves by both name and pronouns, it's usually redundant because in the narration the author has already described them as either male, female or non-binary, and it just makes them all sound weird. For example: Cade's golden hair brushed through his fingers and he gave you a nod. "Cade Abraham. I go by he/him". Like--no **** you do?? The author already pointed it out.

YES!! They put the PC in a morally questionable situation, and then spend the rest of the story apologizing to us for it. If you didn't wanna deal with the ramifications of a morally complicated dynamic, why even make it your premise in the first place? It's weird and jarring. The characters' actions don't match the setting. If arranged marriages are a normal and usual practice, how come everyone views it as bad and pities me? The characters have a bad case of cognitive dissonance. Beyond that, they're all way too nice and considerate for the roles they're supposed to play in the world. It's just not believable to me. (Thinking of both Fields of Asphodel and King's Hound here.)

I see what you mean about the pronouns redundancy. A Tale of Crowns fixes it by using "they" before a character reveals their gender, which is such a tiny *** change that makes so much more sense imo.

 

[solavellan]

The new release eldritch tales is disappointing like the first two demo chapters was promising but in the end it fell flat. Like I've replayed it so many times thinking maybe the mystery solution is just hidden behind a specific set of choices but no it ends abruptly if you stay behind. But has an epilogue that just a shoddily written open ending.

Man it should have stayed in beta for a longer time

 

[dontfollowme]

COG really needs to set a minimum of 2–3 chapters before people post their IF demos.

Because seriously, what are we supposed to do with two pages and a “check out my Patreon”. FOR WHAT?!! You barely gave us anything to even form an opinion on.
If they actually want people to engage or support their work, at least they should give us something solid to chew on first. Otherwise, it just feels less like sharing a story and more like soft-launching their Patreon.

 

[solavellan]

COG really needs to set a minimum of 2–3 chapters before people post their IF demos.

Because seriously, what are we supposed to do with two pages and a “check out my Patreon”. FOR WHAT?!! You barely gave us anything to even form an opinion on.
If they actually want people to engage or support their work, at least they should give us something solid to chew on first. Otherwise, it just feels less like sharing a story and more like soft-launching their Patreon.

What game is this lmfao