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Stories that left you disappointed for a reason
- Thread starter Sant
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As a professional yapper
myself lmao (even tho I lurk most of the time and comment on this site like once or twice a month lol), I just wanted to say that even tho I don't participate often, I enjoyed reading your thoughts! And @spacetree's too! I wasn't expecting you to show up with receipts and everything haha, I was kinda impressed you took the time to gather them 
I love discussing IFs or even just reading discussions about them in general, whether I agree or disagree with them. The longer the better lmao! It's also why I've commented the most on this thread in particular, because there's been a lot of interesting convos people have had here about various IFs. It's not always just purely a thread for saltiness or being a hater haha. And I prefer discussing IF's here tbh rather than in discord/reddit/tumblr/the forum because you can be a bit more unsanitised with your words here and not have to worry as much about offending some author or their fans lmao. I mean I've had quite a few of my favourite IFs roasted on this thread too, but I still found it interesting to read the criticisms lol. And I also never took any of your posts as defending Infamous either, they came off as pretty critical to me for the most part so I am also a bit baffled at some people saying you made an account just for that...? Like did they read your posts at all bruh, it's giving illiterate
And tbh even if you'd made an account just to defend or discuss Infamous or whatever, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that either as long as you're having a respectful discussion with ppl?Also yes I agree! I do love Fallen Hero a lot, but I'd be lying if I said that it didn't take me a good 2-3 tries to get into the first book way back when it came out due to the whole puppet aspect. I'm too lazy to get into all the reasons why I dislike it, but you did already touch on a few of them in one of your later responses! For me I also just prefer playing as Sidestep in their own body. Like idk I know you're still playing as Sidestep when you're in the puppet's body lol, but it's not the same? And I'm just not that invested into the plot points related to the puppet and I don't care for Dr Mortum, I could have liked them as a romance especially bc they're the only villain romance, but you basically only interact with them when you're in the puppet up until the end of book 2. The only interesting thing about the puppet is the whole Shroud involvement with them, but that's also only interesting to me because Shroud is connected to the Farm, and obviously that's connected to Sidestep. And I guess there could be some interesting stuff done with the branching and plot lines and impostor stuff in the third book, but we'll see. But yeah otherwise I lowkey internally groan every time the game switches me to playing the puppet lmao. Thank god you can avoid getting stuck in their body at the end of Revelations lol. I enjoy the series enough to where I can overcome this dislike, but I'm glad I am not the only one, I know it's probably an unpopular opinion!
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Ahhh I see. I guess because I've always been playing as an insecure Sidestep who uses puppet as their escape, it kinda makes me interested to find out how puppet would react if they ever gain their consciousness back.
I'm actually the opposite
. But again, I guess it's because of my insecure Sidestep. Makes the experience of playing puppet more bearable than that sad chap (sorry, Step).Well I guess it's time for me to reread Fallen Hero
I'm actually the opposite
Well I guess it's time for me to reread Fallen Hero
Haha no I totally get that and it 100% makes sense! My Sidestep is actually pretty similar and I try my best to play in character for the kind of OC I've built, so if we're talking purely in terms of character motivations, my Sidestep does kinda like using the puppet for similar reasons
However in a more meta sense, it's just that I as a player prefer playing as Sidestep in their own body and find the storylines pertaining to that persona I guess you could say more interesting, and I also prefer interacting with Ortega as Sidestep. Sorry I have no idea if that makes sense lmao, it's a bit difficult for me to articulate myself sometimes because english isn't my native language but yeah 
Maybe when I have more time after work I will try to expand on this reasoning or explain it better haha.But idk like for example, if I had somehow ended up with my canon as Sidestep stuck in the puppet's body, I would not have meta gamed to change it haha and would have still probably played it like that, even if it wouldn't be my first choice. Thankfully though, what was in character for my Sidestep was to go to the meeting with Hollow Ground as the puppet and then ditched the body when the car crashed, so they are in their own body
That seems like one of the better (if not best) outcomes of Revelations, so I'm quite curious to see how that will turn out, it will be interesting trying to navigate being a villain without the puppet since they were such a big crutch for Sidestep.Also yes, now that you mention it, it's been a while since I replayed it too
I completely get this. It feels wrong to interact with certain characters using the puppet, especially with my most recent MC I played. I know a more villainous MC would have no issues with this but my MC finds it too invasive. They've already thought of letting the puppet go several times and stick to mostly business when in the puppet. Making connections/relationships in someones body who isn't there just doesn't feel right. It's selfish.Haha no I totally get that and it 100% makes sense! My Sidestep is actually pretty similar and I try my best to play in character for the kind of OC I've built, so if we're talking purely in terms of character motivations, my Sidestep does kinda like using the puppet for similar reasons
Also, a side tangent, I know Fallen Hero is a SSF setting but realistically, the puppet is dead. The MC says all they need is water but...they're brain dead. Does MC have medical equipment in the puppet's apartment or is there some weird connection the puppet has to MC that I just did not pick up on yet that would somehow stop the puppet from dying?
I actually agree having sidestep have a thing for Ortega then having the puppet in a relationship with them and then breakup is frankly diabolical plot
Coming in hot from hatereading can'tsaveyourlove! Someone asked the author on tumblr whether MC will be able to punch the affair partner of MC's default RO the way Biggie's wife did when she found Biggie and a girlie in a middle of, ahem, intimacy, the same way MC will, and got an answer that 'there will be no physical violence from MC and blaming the other party is weird'? Girliepop, your game has options to assault paparazzis for trying to take pictures and to THROW A VASE AT PAPARAZZI from a window Like idk how it's not 'physical violence'. Also she prides herself on how 'messy' MC can be but blaming a person your bf\gf is cheating on you with and not said bf\gf is peak messiness... And we are just passing that up?
In the same vein gonna applaud Jude who just made MC be able to hit an a-hole partner back because realistically bad relationship decisions can come from both parties.
Like idk how it's not 'physical violence'. Also she prides herself on how 'messy' MC can be but blaming a person your bf\gf is cheating on you with and not said bf\gf is peak messiness... And we are just passing that up?In the same vein gonna applaud Jude who just made MC be able to hit an a-hole partner back because realistically bad relationship decisions can come from both parties.
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I'm so glad i havet read a single word from that author. Im pretty sure I'd be seething within the first 5k words.Coming in hot from hatereading can'tsaveyourlove! Someone asked the author on tumblr whether MC will be able to punch the affair partner of MC's default RO the way Biggie's wife did when she found Biggie and a girlie in a middle of, ahem, intimacy, the same way MC will, and got an answer that 'there will be no physical violence from MC and blaming the other party is weird'? Girliepop, your game has options to assault paparazzis for trying to take pictures and to THROW A VASE AT PAPARAZZI from a window
In the same vein gonna applaud Jude who just made MC be able to hit an a-hole partner back because realistically bad relationship decisions can come from both parties.
Oh yall talking about can't stop your love from dying peak fiction?
*Ultimate sarcasm*. My friend this is unlimited red flag territory I mean Ronan/Roxy literally is like a dream toxic Ro can absolutely mentally abuse Mc and they can't do nothing about it the classic the other Ros aren't any better frankly like if you want peak suffering with a sprinkle of infamous it's this wip.
like if your a loser like me with no social life basically look no further then this wip it has it all
at this point I should just write my own freakshow these people are getting very easy to read with how their Mcs are written/ their toxic Ros.The cheating **** pissed me off whe I first read it like I have bad experiences with that sooo like i can deal with mentality insane weirdos with parent issues but this is getting ridiculous now can't I just have a psycho who only wants me? How hard is that to ask for
cheating proves they don't like Mc at all and they disposable this Hayden level of bs.
I think R's brain is too fried from being born rich, being famous and always being drunk or high that their prefrontal cortex is basically dead and they don't understand that actions can have lasting consequences. They probably like MC the way an addict likes their next fix, but they don't really love MC for who MC really is but for what MC can provide them (emotional and physical comfort).
I still think if the author allowed MC to be toxic to R as well the game would've been at least 25% more fun (maybe toxic in not violent and antagonistic way, but what about lovebombing? Like imagine you have a narcissistic famous lover who thrives on validation and you are a toxic b who exploits that? Give MC at least some power pls...)
That's Dante Greco from Exquisite Cadaver, if the author ever gets to that one... Also probably E from Bacchanal, but that one will never get properly finished, I'm afraid
I don't know if anyone brought this up recently, but god, I need to vent about my growing disappointment with We Wretched Creatures.
First of all, I want to say that WWC is one of my favorite IFs. I like the atmosphere, I think the characters are cool, found the antagonistic dynamics very interesting and different, I liked Crowny even though I initially had issues with MCs with preset personalities– but I think Crowny simply works within the story and environment (I also think there was a lack of as**ole and gray MCs, so seeing one was a relief, especially one who had reasons to be.)
Only to simply started destroying everything that was coolest about WWC in this latest chapter 8 update. I will talk only about our Mc.
I always loved how morally gray Crowny was since the beginning, how we could make them stood up to themselves (like making fun of James at the beginning, Imre in his antagonist route, the blackmails, etc...), the way they dealed with the hallucinations and their flashbacks to understand more of them and gradually see how our protagonist was hiding things from us, the readers. Crowny was my fav Mc.
To now that last update added that really bad system where choices define your morality and self-esteem. Like ok, most ifs also has this type of system, but in wwc it's so horrible and simply doesn't work.
Some things make absolutely NO sense and they bind us to a morality/self-esteem that we don't want or that didn't make sense with our choices.
For example: my Crowny always stood up, was starting to have a good view of himself, and was always in the gray morally. The only person he would NEVER be defiant with would be Sally, and ONLY Sally.
And then with the last ep? F*ck my choices! my Crowny now is white morally and have low self-esteem. I even had a phrase that was something like: "But what would you do? You never stood up for yourself." LIKE WTF??? LMAOO
I only chose two options related to low self-esteem, and the rest were high. Same thing with morality; I chose something more in between to always be on gray.
The choices now are simply like those VN mobile games that are like "Kiss him (1000 diamonds)" or "Send him and his entire family to hell and kick their cute dog (free)" but is:
• "Apologize (white morality)"
• "heh, f*ck you and f*ck you dead mother Lorcan!
i dont carrr about how she died she deserved it!! xxDDD you are a cry baby for crying about how your life was completely destroyed by losing the people you loved!! you want my cookie so bad! (dark morality)"
• "I'm tired of this life i want to kms (low self-esteem)"
• "well, i wanted to kms before but now i want to have a chance to live (low self-esteem)"
• "i never thought about kms, why would I?? thats a loser thing! im so cool, my life is completely normal and bearable why would i want to kms? (high self-esteem)"
It's basic like that.
Or you play a wet cat weak baby completely pitiful who hates themselves, is a good two shoes who is abused mentally by everyone and will do nothing... Orrr you play a narsicist who is an edgy teenager angel of darkness. You can't be both anymore like it was before. You will need to make choices that you don't want to or or that don't match your Crowny.
The trans option are also bad. Basically, what defines whether you are transmasc or transfem is your clothes
"and non-binary?" I have no ideia, lol.
And it left me so confused and kind of uncomfortable is when Crowny comes out to either Lorcan or Imre. Crowny just immediately just accept that about themselves and go immediately tell others to address them in the right pronous and name ??? like, that's not how it works at all
Especially now with this system of self-esteem, a baby weak Crowny—I mean, a Crowny with low self-esteem—wouldn't tell the whole world that they are trans
First of all, I want to say that WWC is one of my favorite IFs. I like the atmosphere, I think the characters are cool, found the antagonistic dynamics very interesting and different, I liked Crowny even though I initially had issues with MCs with preset personalities– but I think Crowny simply works within the story and environment (I also think there was a lack of as**ole and gray MCs, so seeing one was a relief, especially one who had reasons to be.)
Only to simply started destroying everything that was coolest about WWC in this latest chapter 8 update. I will talk only about our Mc.
I always loved how morally gray Crowny was since the beginning, how we could make them stood up to themselves (like making fun of James at the beginning, Imre in his antagonist route, the blackmails, etc...), the way they dealed with the hallucinations and their flashbacks to understand more of them and gradually see how our protagonist was hiding things from us, the readers. Crowny was my fav Mc.
To now that last update added that really bad system where choices define your morality and self-esteem. Like ok, most ifs also has this type of system, but in wwc it's so horrible and simply doesn't work.
Some things make absolutely NO sense and they bind us to a morality/self-esteem that we don't want or that didn't make sense with our choices.
For example: my Crowny always stood up, was starting to have a good view of himself, and was always in the gray morally. The only person he would NEVER be defiant with would be Sally, and ONLY Sally.
And then with the last ep? F*ck my choices! my Crowny now is white morally and have low self-esteem. I even had a phrase that was something like: "But what would you do? You never stood up for yourself." LIKE WTF??? LMAOO
I only chose two options related to low self-esteem, and the rest were high. Same thing with morality; I chose something more in between to always be on gray.
The choices now are simply like those VN mobile games that are like "Kiss him (1000 diamonds)" or "Send him and his entire family to hell and kick their cute dog (free)" but is:
• "Apologize (white morality)"
• "heh, f*ck you and f*ck you dead mother Lorcan!
i dont carrr about how she died she deserved it!! xxDDD you are a cry baby for crying about how your life was completely destroyed by losing the people you loved!! you want my cookie so bad! (dark morality)"• "I'm tired of this life i want to kms (low self-esteem)"
• "well, i wanted to kms before but now i want to have a chance to live (low self-esteem)"
• "i never thought about kms, why would I?? thats a loser thing! im so cool, my life is completely normal and bearable why would i want to kms? (high self-esteem)"
It's basic like that.
Or you play a wet cat weak baby completely pitiful who hates themselves, is a good two shoes who is abused mentally by everyone and will do nothing... Orrr you play a narsicist who is an edgy teenager angel of darkness. You can't be both anymore like it was before. You will need to make choices that you don't want to or or that don't match your Crowny.
The trans option are also bad. Basically, what defines whether you are transmasc or transfem is your clothes
"and non-binary?" I have no ideia, lol.
And it left me so confused and kind of uncomfortable is when Crowny comes out to either Lorcan or Imre. Crowny just immediately just accept that about themselves and go immediately tell others to address them in the right pronous and name ??? like, that's not how it works at all
Especially now with this system of self-esteem, a baby weak Crowny—I mean, a Crowny with low self-esteem—wouldn't tell the whole world that they are trans
I agree, the main reason why liked the game so much Is that all the characters are morally dubious ******* with understandable reasons but in the later chapters it seems like everything is the fault of Crowny and its hard to fight back or even stand up the MC becomes an passive plot point.I don't know if anyone brought this up recently, but god, I need to vent about my growing disappointment with We Wretched Creatures.
First of all, I want to say that WWC is one of my favorite IFs. I like the atmosphere, I think the characters are cool, found the antagonistic dynamics very interesting and different, I liked Crowny even though I initially had issues with MCs with preset personalities– but I think Crowny simply works within the story and environment (I also think there was a lack of as**ole and gray MCs, so seeing one was a relief, especially one who had reasons to be.)
Only to simply started destroying everything that was coolest about WWC in this latest chapter 8 update. I will talk only about our Mc.
I always loved how morally gray Crowny was since the beginning, how we could make them stood up to themselves (like making fun of James at the beginning, Imre in his antagonist route, the blackmails, etc...), the way they dealed with the hallucinations and their flashbacks to understand more of them and gradually see how our protagonist was hiding things from us, the readers. Crowny was my fav Mc.
To now that last update added that really bad system where choices define your morality and self-esteem. Like ok, most ifs also has this type of system, but in wwc it's so horrible and simply doesn't work.
Some things make absolutely NO sense and they bind us to a morality/self-esteem that we don't want or that didn't make sense with our choices.
For example: my Crowny always stood up, was starting to have a good view of himself, and was always in the gray morally. The only person he would NEVER be defiant with would be Sally, and ONLY Sally.
And then with the last ep? F*ck my choices! my Crowny now is white morally and have low self-esteem. I even had a phrase that was something like: "But what would you do? You never stood up for yourself." LIKE WTF??? LMAOO
I only chose two options related to low self-esteem, and the rest were high. Same thing with morality; I chose something more in between to always be on gray.
The choices now are simply like those VN mobile games that are like "Kiss him (1000 diamonds)" or "Send him and his entire family to hell and kick their cute dog (free)" but is:
• "Apologize (white morality)"
• "heh, f*ck you and f*ck you dead mother Lorcan!
• "I'm tired of this life i want to kms (low self-esteem)"
• "well, i wanted to kms before but now i want to have a chance to live (low self-esteem)"
• "i never thought about kms, why would I?? thats a loser thing! im so cool, my life is completely normal and bearable why would i want to kms? (high self-esteem)"
It's basic like that.
Or you play a wet cat weak baby completely pitiful who hates themselves, is a good two shoes who is abused mentally by everyone and will do nothing... Orrr you play a narsicist who is an edgy teenager angel of darkness. You can't be both anymore like it was before. You will need to make choices that you don't want to or or that don't match your Crowny.
The trans option are also bad. Basically, what defines whether you are transmasc or transfem is your clothes
"and non-binary?" I have no ideia, lol.
And it left me so confused and kind of uncomfortable is when Crowny comes out to either Lorcan or Imre. Crowny just immediately just accept that about themselves and go immediately tell others to address them in the right pronous and name ??? like, that's not how it works at all
Especially now with this system of self-esteem, a baby weak Crowny—I mean, a Crowny with low self-esteem—wouldn't tell the whole world that they are trans
Honestly, I don't like how now low self-esteem = weak. IRL you can be aggressively hateful towards yourself AND aggressively hateful towards others. Also, if Crowny is this mysterious cryptid creature that lies even to oneself, why can't they lie to others about being weak or being confident? Why can't Crowny pretend to be nice with Sally because they like him and not because they hate themselves? Why can't they pretend to obey to get away with things?
I also dislike the routes getting closed off right after a pivotal moment. What if a low self-esteem Crowny got a god delusion after they murdered their bully and now they don't see themselves as weak? What if immoral Crowny had a moment of revelation that 'oh wow I don't want to be that bad'?
I guess Jude closed off the routes to streamline the game that has a ton of variables already, but imo that's a bad moment to do that. Maybe let the players choose the route\confirm it in season 2?
I also dislike the routes getting closed off right after a pivotal moment. What if a low self-esteem Crowny got a god delusion after they murdered their bully and now they don't see themselves as weak? What if immoral Crowny had a moment of revelation that 'oh wow I don't want to be that bad'?
I guess Jude closed off the routes to streamline the game that has a ton of variables already, but imo that's a bad moment to do that. Maybe let the players choose the route\confirm it in season 2?
Exactly!!! I really don't understand why Jude did that since Crowny was never weak before to endure everything they went through and now suddenly they are weak? Just like you said, IRL It's so much more than that. It's sad to see summarized like that when it's something so complex and had so many opportunities to be represented.
It's funny that in earlier chapters, as far as I remember, there are times when Crowny can lie to Sally:
- When Sally end up angry but later regrets and asks if Crowny believes he didn't mean what he said
- When Crowny, Imre, and Lorcan show up at his workplace to talk to father
- Going to the Halloween party
And yes!!! I disliked that as well, it was a terrible time to have implemented that system because it's very sudden and at the same time a bit soon, especially with the events that occurred in chapters 7 and 8.
I agree that if it was since the beginning the self-esteem and morality, would really had been a great to Crowny to have a moment of delusion and revelation, would be really cool ngl.
when I used to follow her on tumblr (worst decision of my life), I saw her say some times that some Ros wouldn't accept Crowny's morality if it was incompatible with theirs.
Having low self-esteem = MC could kind of panic and simply decide to change their morals just to be with that specific Ro.
Having high self-esteem = the Ros could change their morality to stay with Crowny, or they would simply give up on the relationship until they meet again in season 2.
So yeah.... It was in the plans, but it just turned out really bad and rushed.
I'd say just write a book but that wouldn't be happening either. Just make a roleplay/OC blog I guess?
i stopped playing WWC because the author now has 600 other projects and i’m jaded but i also once really loved the game and i think a lot of this is really good feedback, if u haven’t already u should send it to jude! she’s normally pretty receptive to feedback and hopefully she’ll tweak stuff to make it less wonkyTo now that last update added that really bad system where choices define your morality and self-esteem. Like ok, most ifs also has this type of system, but in wwc it's so horrible and simply doesn't work.
Some things make absolutely NO sense and they bind us to a morality/self-esteem that we don't want or that didn't make sense with our choices.
For example: my Crowny always stood up, was starting to have a good view of himself, and was always in the gray morally. The only person he would NEVER be defiant with would be Sally, and ONLY Sally.
And then with the last ep? F*ck my choices! my Crowny now is white morally and have low self-esteem. I even had a phrase that was something like: "But what would you do? You never stood up for yourself." LIKE WTF??? LMAOO
I only chose two options related to low self-esteem, and the rest were high. Same thing with morality; I chose something more in between to always be on gray.
The choices now are simply like those VN mobile games that are like "Kiss him (1000 diamonds)" or "Send him and his entire family to hell and kick their cute dog (free)" but is:
• "Apologize (white morality)"
• "heh, f*ck you and f*ck you dead mother Lorcan!
• "I'm tired of this life i want to kms (low self-esteem)"
• "well, i wanted to kms before but now i want to have a chance to live (low self-esteem)"
• "i never thought about kms, why would I?? thats a loser thing! im so cool, my life is completely normal and bearable why would i want to kms? (high self-esteem)"
Wait... Is this for real? Was it confirmed on Tumblr?
Good thing I have Orion. 
