I thought I was halfway through the game when it just ended lmao
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Stories that left you disappointed for a reason
- Thread starter Sant
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Sadly such thing has become rather common with new IFs, especially those with a long-running Tumblr page.
This also applies to platonic relationships. Many IFs have a BFF-at-first-sight trope that is so goddamn frustrating to read. There is always that one obviously "friend" character (which can be an RO) that we can't escape whatsoever. We can't be indifferent to them, let alone full on reject them. No, we have to like them. Example: Fadiya from Crown of Ashes and Flames, Arthur from Adoriel's Tears (granted we can be hostile to him), Gawain from The Bastard of Camelot, Dante and Bianca from OMWAT, and many more.To the pathetic MCs you can add the one from Lost in your eyes. It seems like you can play badass, but then you are forced to grovel and blush in front of the healer. I would understand if it was optional if someone likes that kind of content, but I wanted to beat the **** out of that son of a *****, not cower and apologize!
There's nothing I hate more than being forced to play a submissive wimp because the author has some fantasy about how that RO will be dominant and commanding - I don't care, I want to turn them into a bleeding and begging pile. If for plot reasons they can't be killed then give any intimidating option that will actually have an effect and fit MC's personality. This supposed to be interactive fiction.
Every demo I've checked lately is worse than the last oneI can list games that I like almost 10/10 on the fingers of one hand. But reading the same things over and over gets tiring after a while...
That one is my true nemesis because it breaks the narrative of MC being 100% bitter about what is happening to them and wanting revenge. MC even can't mistrust her on a very simple obvious grounds of her being friends with a son of the man who brutally murdered MC's parents
And somehow you have to like not only Fadiya, but her frog as well...Dropped my vengeful playthrough when the MC kept going from ">:|" to "
" around Fadiyale sigh
If you bring this up anywhere else you’re getting hate on and stuff. I remember bringing this up on Reddit saying allowing it to happen will take the IF community down the path of the VN milking creators and being downvoted. We’ll see the rewrites and excuses, 1 small update a year, the abyssal already figured it out. Like most new IF creators are in it thinking it’s easy quick cash and you’ll see stories abandoned quick when they realize it’s not like the VN community. I’ll give it another year or two before it’s rampant.
I think we'll see - as we're already seeing - a pivot to RO/NSFW content, as this seems to keep folks engaged even if the story itself is not progressing anywhere, and well, s e x always sells.
At this point if you want to make money might as well bite the bullet, since audiences themselves are encouraging this.
There is a difference between people there for the story and those there for wish-fulfillment, and the latter just so happen to be more numerous
Adoriel's Tears allowed player to be quite the bully. Which was pleasant, at least compared to most IFs where god forbid you would show any rudeness to your assigned best friend.
MC felt like a real child with moods and outbursts of anger and jealousy. Well, a spoiled brat.
But eventually I got bored with this IF too
The helpless child part lasted too long. Another thing I've been seeing way too much in demos lately; being helpless and weak -,- Gimme a story where you can be someone everyone respects and / or fears! Without trauma
Ryden is an interesting case when it comes to IFs Patreon. 3301 members and no NSFW content. There are a lot of creative questions about ROs, MC and the universe.I think we'll see - as we're already seeing - a pivot to RO/NSFW content, as this seems to keep folks engaged even if the story itself is not progressing anywhere, and well, s e x always sells.
At this point if you want to make money might as well bite the bullet, since audiences themselves are encouraging this.
There is a difference between people there for the story and those there for wish-fulfillment, and the latter just so happen to be more numerous
(This is the author of Fallen Hero, right?)
An older game series (came to be when expectations were different), considered to be a classic, has an already established fanbase of probably slightly older readers. And I assume the author put a lot of effort into fostering this specific atmosphere.
That is to say, a game starting out nowadays will have to face different expectations, and will have to compete in a more saturated market, and authors might be more inclined to go for what's easier/what sells due to that.
But also the priorities of many modern authors are just different lol (going back to the point of fostering a specific atmosphere)
They don't just write in this way because it's what sells, it's also what they enjoy reading/writing about the most
That's probably the reason for the "why is MC so lame and ROs so cool" complaints I sometimes see on here
Such authors are themselves most interested in ROs, and audiences mostly eat it up, because they share with these authors a desire for the same type of fantasy
(and other authors might feel pressured into going along to not lose popularity)
I don't know about you, but how do you guys feel about ROs being into each other? I know its mostly to sell the idea of a poly but I generally don't like it because I don't want to play polys and to know my RO is into someone else, it sours me.
Call me jealous or whatever, I don't care.
Call me jealous or whatever, I don't care.
The market is saturated with mostly average and weak games (I'm talking about HG released) and lots of dead demos that were promising....
The competition is not that strong imo. Poor quality writing, too often repeated tropes (keywords for popular ones: dark fantasy, trauma, toxic relationship, bad family, war in medieval kingdom, magic, vampires, demons) and above all, focusing mainly on spicy scenes.
The problem is rather the attitude of the new 'writers'. They do not seem to treat IF game as their loved project. The one they would be willing to work on for free, having a clear vision of the world, who MC is and what role has etc. Something that gives them the joy of creating and don't need the approval of other people. It's writing and development most important, not flattery from Tumblr or money from Patreon.
I have the impression that authors of new demos only care about these last two things mentioned.
ROs are meant for the players, so for MC. I'm not saying that all ROs have to be in love with us from the first meeting and exist only for that reason (that would be pretty awful), but the author shouldn't put the player second. Never ever.
I don't like it, I never liked it, not even in Mass Effect with Garrus and Tali. Different reasons why I don't like it:
• Almost always, the romance between the MC and the Ro is more complicated, while between the RO or Ro/NPC it feels easy, as if they shouldn't make all that effort to get into a relationship.
• They almost always end up together on every other route unless you do their route. It almost makes it seem like soulmates who if it weren't for the annoying MC, would be together.
• (Not always, sometimes ROs don't have chemistry between them) when the relationship seems better, more interesting, and better built between the two ROs than with the MC.
• The author seems to prefer that romance, to that of MC with the RO.
There are other reasons too, but these are the main ones. I hope I've explained myself well.
I think they enjoy writing, just not writing the plot per se. They enjoy writing cool moments for ROs, flirting, fluff or NSFW, all that jazz, the story is just there to string the moments together and the MC is mostly there to self-insert.
That's why I said there's a difference between reading for a story and reading for wish-fulfillment. There's also a difference between writing a story as a story, and a story as an escapism vehicle. Escapism vehicles can be popular without being good stories (Twilight, anyone?).
Hence...
If it's meant for people who are into threesomes, it's not really putting the player second, it's catering to someone's preference/kink/whatever. So technically putting them first lol
Some things become much easier to understand if you approach it from the pov of "it is written for fulfilling a specific fantasy" rather than "it is written to be a good story" or "it is written to be a good game".
Dare I say that the angsty romance and tragic MC makes up atleast a part of it? I don't remember much from playing fallen hero and it's been a long time. My first impressions weren't very big, probably cuz I breezed through the first game. I should give it a go again sometime.
So... lack of writers who are interested in writing a story and can focus on something other than romance and ***. Instead the community is full of horny kids (young adults, whatever) who only think about one thing...
Then there should be a big red warning at the beginning of such a game. Some authors don't inform about it and then they get mad that people come disappointed and complain.
Pretty big part I would say. But the author doesn't fill the Patron with erotic content. *** scenes in the game are also not explicit.
I bet fans wouldn't complain, considering the amount of art with naked Sidestep x RO.
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I only care if it's the ro I want lol or if there's more than one poly relationship because I know the game is going to take forever to be finished with all the variations, I also haven't found a polyamorous relationship I enjoy within twine/cog/hosted yet, I prefer if the ros are already in a relationship and you join it than they be obviously so into each other tho as long as there monogamous ros I enjoy I don't really care, if all the characters are polyamorous I won't try that and as long as they are not the night market author, all of them put into the open.
Yeah, but it's not the main focus. The story is still interesting and engaging enough even without romance. Honestly angsty romance is okay, as long as it's treated with maturity instead of just being the writer's self-indulgent fantasy fulfillment. There's a difference when reading the romance in Fallen Hero vs the romance in Wayhaven.
Not a fan. If we romance someone else or nobody, those two end up together. That's like most playthroughs in a branching game not counting romancing one of those character. It makes us feel like the meddling one in between their romance. I hate RO characters who are exes. It immediately crosses out the option of me romancing them in the event that they might get together or offer a poly route. We feel like the third wheel.
Also who in the right mind would date the ex of your colleague or friend? It's too weird. Imagine being around your friend who happens to intimately know your partner at the same level or even more than your character.
Some might say that it's just a game but these kinds of topics are real for a lot of people. It's not like murder or tragic backstory which most of us are not acquainted to, hopefully. These topics are safe to traverse cuz we have a certain fantasy about it compared to being cheated on or being in questionable relationships which is very real to almost everyone. It gives us the ick. In short words, being in a relationship is way closer to reality than committing murder or getting tortured. In a way, these are also kinks but are way more relevant in terms to story telling. The latter is more easier to roleplay than the former.
One of the reasons i keep somewhat mocking on this thread the "if no romance or sandboxy choices then I won't play the game". You can't expect a new writer to properly write for you:
1. at least three different protagonist routes based on gender choices
2. At least 4 RO routes
3. A story at least 100K+ long
4. Power fantasy MC, similar to the one from Solo Leveling
5. Micro-choices which will be referenced down the story. Etc.
Not everybody can write romance. And
the expectation for them to write the next fallen hero is too much, leading to the abandoned wips graveyard. Then you also get the "I'll never finish the story, but I'll gladly get your bucks for side-stories/POVs" (don't get me started on the paywalled progress reports).
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