She mentioned adding new scenes in chapter 3 where you can interact with Guinevere, along with other rewrites she has planned, but she didn’t explain what those will be about.
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Stories that left you disappointed for a reason
- Thread starter Sant
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Gross, even more bloat, some things should remain offscreen. It seems she's as uninterested with writing the wedding as I am about reading it.
Sometimes I wonder why they don't do those rewrites quietly? Keep a private version for yourself and do your things with it, rewrite as you want and replace the actual demo with it once you're satisfied with it. But keep working on the actual demo you have. I mean I know what I'm saying is very difficult, practically working on two games at once but still...
okay, completely unrelated with the discussion going on but it's 4am and I need to rant:
the IF scene has been terrible as of late to me, oh my god. I'm not even talking about one story in particular, I'm talking about the whole community (which makes me kinda wary I'm going off-topic here... but fingers crossed that not, LOL).
there's been a lot of releases and i feel like a lot of them are the same old thing... same tropes, same problems, etc.
to start – MC is always some sort of mary sue at the same time they're everyone's (author included) punching bag. really special and by all means supposed to be able to stand up for themselves, but then they keep getting saved over and over again by the other characters... and i don't mean this only in IFs that have this "risk factor" to them if you get what i mean, even in slice-of-life ones i see MC being completely incompetent. which i'd say it's fair, that would be interesting/different even if written well (or just generally on purpose. not my cup of tea specifically, but I'd respect it if nothing else), but it just doesn't make any sense when the whole plot revolves around them (MC) being an special little thing (chosen by prophecy, having a different power from everyone else, the best at their job, you name it).
i also feel like ROs are becoming more and more bland because authors keep writing based on tropes/making them fall into archetypes rather than actually developing them and making them unique. it's always nice RO, icy/stoic and/or "tsundere" RO, flirty and playful RO. not necessarily meaning the game only have 3 ROs - just that every other one kinda falls into the same umbrella/term. and honestly, i could talk for hours about how, when the ROs are men (which, a lot of the time they are), the romance is almost always written with a fem MC in mind. so you have a beautiful (being sarcastic here...) generic dynamic where the big guy saves the petite, damsel-in-distress MC (which can be kinda funny when i, for one, make my MC stoic and 6'4. yeah, even in slice-of-life! if my MC isn't looking like an old war veteran I don't want it. /joke. kinda?!).
I'd say that even the settings are repeated/cliches, a lot of time. war is coming. something evil and magical is on the play (maybe a god, maybe a curse). dystopian city (always night, violent, and full of neon lights...) with gang wars/violence/someone put a target on your back and is making your life difficult, but somehow you're surviving despite getting kicked all the way to heaven by some minor enemy in the beginning of the story. and yeah, i guess it's difficult to invent something brand new, but i also think authors could add their own flair to old stuff. a different plot twist, an interesting resolution...
on a general note, there's also the point that a lot of people get starry-eyed with big IFs and forget the amount of commitment they should have if they want to do their own - hence a lot of abandoned WIPs, IFs with so many grammatical errors and bugs it's a miracle you make it past the first choice, authors that starts a bazillion and one different games (and of course, they finish none), games that take forever to release even the prologue (and if they do, by some sort of divine help, make it to chapter one, you can expect it to be divided in 456 parts. 2 lines per update)... not too hard on the last one because i know writing isn't, despite popular thinking, easy at all. but still, my main point is that people often go to this scene with unplanned stories, unaware of how to deal with fans (and haters, because this is the internet unfortunately), etc etc. just with a faint idea of becoming the next big author who gets 5 billion and some more on their patreon and has at least 63k followers.
of course I'm exaggerating the numbers, and at the end of the day I'm well aware they (authors) are only human, but i think more and more people are losing the "passion" part of the projects and focusing solely on numbers or making it big.
of course, and back to the topic of characters/MC, i think some of them are really just in love with the concept/their characters and not with MC or the dynamics their characters can have with them (MC)/the reader. biggest reason why MC can feel bland/annoying, forgotten, and/or generally have a generic dynamic with the ROs that will make you yawn, roll your eyes, or both of those at the same time (don't ask me about the logistics of yawning while you roll your eyes... it's more about the vibes). in a lot of IFs you could just take MC out the story that it would work for the most part, if not all of it. MC doesn't seem like part of the universe like the ROs are, even if they have lived in that place since they were born and despite everything, it was home (tm)...
anyways, this got terribly long (though honestly, if i could, i would rant even more) but those are some of my thoughts. you can tell i desperately need more recommendations that won't make me want to pluck my eyes out...
as a disclaimer, though, i will say that it's okay to be generic sometimes, but at least have the writing skills to back it up... I've liked a bunch of "generic, bland" stuff just because the writing was good and/or the characters had some interesting dynamic that i liked. is this hypocritical of me?! oh well...
the IF scene has been terrible as of late to me, oh my god. I'm not even talking about one story in particular, I'm talking about the whole community (which makes me kinda wary I'm going off-topic here... but fingers crossed that not, LOL).
there's been a lot of releases and i feel like a lot of them are the same old thing... same tropes, same problems, etc.
to start – MC is always some sort of mary sue at the same time they're everyone's (author included) punching bag. really special and by all means supposed to be able to stand up for themselves, but then they keep getting saved over and over again by the other characters... and i don't mean this only in IFs that have this "risk factor" to them if you get what i mean, even in slice-of-life ones i see MC being completely incompetent. which i'd say it's fair, that would be interesting/different even if written well (or just generally on purpose. not my cup of tea specifically, but I'd respect it if nothing else), but it just doesn't make any sense when the whole plot revolves around them (MC) being an special little thing (chosen by prophecy, having a different power from everyone else, the best at their job, you name it).
i also feel like ROs are becoming more and more bland because authors keep writing based on tropes/making them fall into archetypes rather than actually developing them and making them unique. it's always nice RO, icy/stoic and/or "tsundere" RO, flirty and playful RO. not necessarily meaning the game only have 3 ROs - just that every other one kinda falls into the same umbrella/term. and honestly, i could talk for hours about how, when the ROs are men (which, a lot of the time they are), the romance is almost always written with a fem MC in mind. so you have a beautiful (being sarcastic here...) generic dynamic where the big guy saves the petite, damsel-in-distress MC (which can be kinda funny when i, for one, make my MC stoic and 6'4. yeah, even in slice-of-life! if my MC isn't looking like an old war veteran I don't want it. /joke. kinda?!).
I'd say that even the settings are repeated/cliches, a lot of time. war is coming. something evil and magical is on the play (maybe a god, maybe a curse). dystopian city (always night, violent, and full of neon lights...) with gang wars/violence/someone put a target on your back and is making your life difficult, but somehow you're surviving despite getting kicked all the way to heaven by some minor enemy in the beginning of the story. and yeah, i guess it's difficult to invent something brand new, but i also think authors could add their own flair to old stuff. a different plot twist, an interesting resolution...
on a general note, there's also the point that a lot of people get starry-eyed with big IFs and forget the amount of commitment they should have if they want to do their own - hence a lot of abandoned WIPs, IFs with so many grammatical errors and bugs it's a miracle you make it past the first choice, authors that starts a bazillion and one different games (and of course, they finish none), games that take forever to release even the prologue (and if they do, by some sort of divine help, make it to chapter one, you can expect it to be divided in 456 parts. 2 lines per update)... not too hard on the last one because i know writing isn't, despite popular thinking, easy at all. but still, my main point is that people often go to this scene with unplanned stories, unaware of how to deal with fans (and haters, because this is the internet unfortunately), etc etc. just with a faint idea of becoming the next big author who gets 5 billion and some more on their patreon and has at least 63k followers.
of course I'm exaggerating the numbers, and at the end of the day I'm well aware they (authors) are only human, but i think more and more people are losing the "passion" part of the projects and focusing solely on numbers or making it big.
of course, and back to the topic of characters/MC, i think some of them are really just in love with the concept/their characters and not with MC or the dynamics their characters can have with them (MC)/the reader. biggest reason why MC can feel bland/annoying, forgotten, and/or generally have a generic dynamic with the ROs that will make you yawn, roll your eyes, or both of those at the same time (don't ask me about the logistics of yawning while you roll your eyes... it's more about the vibes). in a lot of IFs you could just take MC out the story that it would work for the most part, if not all of it. MC doesn't seem like part of the universe like the ROs are, even if they have lived in that place since they were born and despite everything, it was home (tm)...
anyways, this got terribly long (though honestly, if i could, i would rant even more) but those are some of my thoughts. you can tell i desperately need more recommendations that won't make me want to pluck my eyes out...
as a disclaimer, though, i will say that it's okay to be generic sometimes, but at least have the writing skills to back it up... I've liked a bunch of "generic, bland" stuff just because the writing was good and/or the characters had some interesting dynamic that i liked. is this hypocritical of me?! oh well...
And yet if your IF differs significantly from the "accepted" paradigm, good luck getting people to as much as look at it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Would be nice if someone created a list of the more unusual/unique IFs, tho. Food for reading + people could go support some lesser known authors.
Would be nice if someone created a list of the more unusual/unique IFs, tho. Food for reading + people could go support some lesser known authors.
It sounds exactly like A Tale of Crowns, which I've been trying to read recently. And basically 90% of current WIPs, mainly by authors who are most active on Tumblr. Sigh. I could leave the community and find a new hobby, but every now and then I still find gems (SPLIT: the Mortal Wound my latest finding).
honestly... yeah. I've known AToC ever since it first released, played back then, and had pretty much the same opinion. i also tried to play recently to see if my would opinion change, or if the author/writing itself would, but...
i think every good point of this IF is completely destroyed by the fact the MC is just not enjoyable. and c'mon, we spend most of our time "with" MC... if we don't like them, how can we really enjoy the story?
thanks for the recommendation! i'll be sure to check it out.
huge agree, yeah. most of the fanbase want the same old slop, and I've find the community has become really toxic as of late (well, sure, i did write a huge word vomit earlier, but at the least i wasn't mean... LMFAO)
and agree again! we could probably create a thread and comment/discuss about different/unusual IFs.
I went and did it https://choiceofmods.com/threads/unusual-and-or-underappreciated-ifs.4827/and agree again! we could probably create a thread and comment/discuss about different/unusual IFs.
AKA Booktok slop but now with choices. Biggest reason I stopped reading traditional books unless it was published pre-covid. Books and reading is now a disposable commodity and people only write because of the clout it might give them, not because they have any story to tell. It's brainless, fast food consumerism at it finest.
It's a shame but yeah, I know four people that post covid built massive bookshelves, all full of new books... And they haven't read half-
scratch that, they've maybe read ten
What do they talk about? Buying more
I agree on that romance dynamic part, mate. Sometimes I feel like they wrote the story based around a Female mc and Male ROs, give an option to swap the gender, and then called it a day.
Like you said, sometimes it doesn't matter if the MC is a Stoic 6'4 bearded guy that built like a godd*mn T-35 Russian Battle Tank, you're still treated as a damsel in distress
If Books = smart then having lots of books = being really smart. Also, a lot of HGTV inspired interior designers push having a large bookshelf for the aesthetic of having one. It's not like pre-covid didn't have slop, I have read the black dagger brotherhood series (good god it's still going on), covid just made a problem worse, and it's bleeding out to everything writing and literary related.
I think they collect them because they look pretty? Idk just feels sad to have all those books if you aren't ever planning on reading them
Edit-
Yeah covid royally screwed it up. Everyone wanted community, everyone wanted to be a part of something, so all the hobbies and subcultured got watered down into aesthetics so they can show off how they're part of something
oh yeah, definitely. i try to read a lot (not counting IFs, LOL) and i've been sticking mostly to classics/older books. whenever i read a more recent book, i tend to avoid the YA/romance genre at all costs because i know i'm just going to get annoyed...
i guess this also ties back to the whole IF thing. i find a lot of authors/writers in general doesn't really read anymore, and if they do, it's pretty much similar slop that tries to be 'deep and emotional' but is always just cringy/senseless. in a way, i think this explains why the quality of the writing/stories have been... not great at all as mentioned before. -_-''
Not just that they no longer read, but there are a lot of bad faith readers as well. People who expect books to be held to an absurd purity degree, often ignoring context (both in text and historical) in order to 'prove' that they could write something better. The story of Persephone and frankly Greek myth in general gets these types of readers a lot, but a lot of 'feminist' retellings tend to have writers who fall into this category.
Simply explore other IFs outside of COG/HG. There are thousands of interesting IFs out there. As I've said before, start with IFcomp games, then go through IFDB (if you can get used to the dogshit UI) or try ADRIFT or CYS and Delight Games (highly recommended)
Eh. Delight Games is almost heavily aimed towards guys and male power fantasies. In fact, once you look outside of COG/HG, your only options are dealing with UI that hasn't been updated since the 90s (IFDB), extremely short (IFComp), heavily geared towards straight males with little inclusion (Delight Games) or suffer from the same problems that COG/HG does (Twine).
Haven't tried ADRIFT or CYS yet, though.
I am in a couple of closed Reddit communities for ppl in publishing, and from what I have been hearing from english-speaking colleagues the trend has been to turn down books in 3rd PoV because many readers among gen z and younger nees to self-insert
But actually it's not covid's fault. It's world economy and culture shift towards brainrot. Global book industry as a whole is in crisis because:
- people are reading less which leads to drop in education and reading comprehension overall, which, in turn, leads to less strict literary standards.
- books and printing is getting more expensive
- global quality of living, earnings and spendings are on decline, or in stagnation at best
- people are mighty stressed because they are poor; hence why entertaining slop is more popular than heavy themes.
- due to globalisation the entry level to publishing is lower. Self-publishibg also contributes to the lowered standards.
Ergo you cannot afford to publish something non-marketable. And, considering that average level of culture, critical thinking and comprehension is on the decline BECAUSE people are reading less (ironic, I know), the mass books published are aimed at that mass unsophisticated reader. It's a vicious circle that we won't be able to escape until the standard of living improves again.
3rd person POV is good and IFs should try to use it moreI am in a couple of closed Reddit communities for ppl in publishing, and from what I have been hearing from english-speaking colleagues the trend has been to turn down books in 3rd PoV because many readers among gen z and younger nees to self-insert
But actually it's not covid's fault. It's world economy and culture shift towards brainrot. Global book industry as a whole is in crisis because:
- people are reading less which leads to drop in education and reading comprehension overall, which, in turn, leads to less strict literary standards.
- books and printing is getting more expensive
- global quality of living, earnings and spendings are on decline, or in stagnation at best
- people are mighty stressed because they are poor; hence why entertaining slop is more popular than heavy themes.
- due to globalisation the entry level to publishing is lower. Self-publishibg also contributes to the lowered standards.
Ergo you cannot afford to publish something non-marketable. And, considering that average level of culture, critical thinking and comprehension is on the decline BECAUSE people are reading less (ironic, I know), the mass books published are aimed at that mass unsophisticated reader. It's a vicious circle that we won't be able to escape until the standard of living improves again.
TBh I think that if an IF author is making a somewhat fixed MC, having them in 3rd person PoV will save the said author from a plethora of "so what if a MC who has a voice of a nightingale, brown eyes and is very shy comes up to a RO and HUGS THEM!!!" asks. Or from speculations about limited options.
I feel like if you are going with 2nd person PoV, the readers to a degree expect you to cater to their way of thinking and feeling, but with a 3rd person many readers will feel like they are piloting a character who has their own psyche
