Stories that left you disappointed for a reason

[yourstalkeroutside]

Why? That's his opinion, and he's explained his reasons in great detail

Just a quick reminder that this thread is for sharing different perspectives. We're not here to debate who is right or wrong, so please keep your comments respectful and openminded

@yourstalkeroutside and @Ireth313 THAT'S HIS OPINION!!!

I've also shared that the game has issues and said that he's right that some stuff is pretty railroaded but it's pretty clear he just dislikes the whole thing and wants it to be something it's not aka a power fantasy with a MC who does nothing but aura farm and has 0 problems.

Besides, I'm not the one here with out of context screenshots in an attempt to prove a point.

 

[Ireth313]

robably even lower than that considering they dont know anything about existing information

Sidenote: intelligent and educated\erudite are two different things. I won't call MC stupid but, I would agree that they are uneducated (which IS kinda irritating to me since I always RP some kind of either bard or wizard) Ig always making MC non-erudite is a lazy plot device to have you learn the lore without reading 983475 entries in the codex; kind of a brother to many games and books making MC amnesiac so that the reader would learn the world along with them).

Realistically, your MC gets an incentive to study different countries and their political systems only with one of the three mentors (remember, we are in fantasy-esque middle ages or smth, so I assume not everyone in this world can even read; MC being able to read and write is, probably, already a sign of being educated). And even if your MC is Brissa's mentee, it is made clear that she secretly held MC at arm's length because her first pick was Aeran and MC was an extra. She'd have to teach MC things and take MC with her, but she did a stty job at it. Otherwise, it depends on whether MC travelled there or not, and they didn't. If it were up to me, I'd have at least Brissa's mentorship make MC politically savvy instead of coming up with the reasons why a woman who should've taught them a lot about history and politics did a half-assed job at teaching.

they cant hold a verbal battle

You can also get an upper hand in the gala convos, bait Nova into telling you things, bait\persuade that one senator into it, and get an upper hand over mage council when you are persuading them to let you into the tower. Idk about the servant because I was never rude\threatening to them to begin with (why antagonise someone in an already hostile environment who's in charge of your necessities? She also will be rude to you no matter what because she knows you are dependent on her employer; in pecking order MC and Aeran are, technically, lower than her), so I won't argue about the response MC gives.

If MC is supposed to idolize Aeran, they why do we even get a choice to choose their relationship?

It does affect how Aeran behaves in arguments and conflict. E.g. if MC is in a situationship with him, he at least tries to be less of an ahole, and if MC is in full-blown romance with him, he doesn't try to shut them down in the tower at all. In fact, you get a very different conversation. But you can only romance him properly if MC almost dies and Aeran is forced to reconsider that MC is not a permanent fixture in his life, so there's that. He also discloses more if MC is romancing him, but ultimately the ch 3 outcome with him is still the same.

I also think that MC doesn't even realise they sort of idolise him or envy him (if you have bad relationship). He's just the last part of their surviving identity: I don't like that it's unchangeable, but it's pretty clear that even if your MC didn't like being in the Order, they effing centred their whole identity around it (unlike MC's narrative foil aka Aeran who tried to break away from it). It's also pretty clear that before things fell apart, MC was pretty content being an ordinary soldier and didn't have any ambition to be a leader — and that mindset is kind of hard to shrug off, especially if you can fall back on someone familiar. I don't think it makes them a doormat or spineless, necessarily, but you are right that before the events of the game the only thing truly special around them was their birth circumstances. I am not an author, but reading the IF I kinda assumed that now with Aeran out of the way MC will have no excuses to try and fall back into that soldier role and will be forced to outgrow being a tool they were, quite frankly, raised to be.

 

[seneya]

Wtf are these choices and wtf are those responses?

People snapping at each other from frustration/pressure? If it looks/sounds juvenile, it's because, well, people doing this irl look juvenile as well lol. But it still happens (pretty often imo).
But I disagree that Aeran shuts the MC down here, except in the most basic "shut up" sense. People resort to name-calling when they have no actual arguments, so by that metric, he didn't "shut down" **** and won no argument. I wish there was an option to point that out to him. Therefore, I can understand why one would dislike those scenes, as they present the MC as just as immature/petty as Aeran instead of letting them keep a cool head. But that's just how it is. The MC is not written as someone "above it".

If MC is supposed to idolize Aeran

I didn't get the sense that MC idolizes Aeran. Maybe clinging to him bc he's their childhood friend/crush/lost and found piece of the past and they have no one else, as you said. I think it's an understandable attitude given their situation, if not the most healthy one. But arguably nothing about MC and Aeran and their circumstances or relationship is healthy in general by that point.
How to put it? Unhealthy people are going to give unhealthy (immature etc.) behaviors/reactions. That imo would only really be a problem if MC is not allowed to grow out of that further on.

the MC didnt really have the guts to investigate what happened at the Spire

I thought MC was stuck just trying to survive, but I might be misremembering.

yay for lots of arguments/discussion on the thread

 

[Ireth313]

I didn't get the sense that MC idolizes Aeran.

I think they sort of do in a way that they somehow expect him to be the one with the answers? E.g., reading I got that undercurrent of 'if only Aeran fessed up RIGHT NOW! Then all will be nice and clear and the mess will somehow fix itself'. Maybe idolises is not the right word, but they do ascribe way more significance to him than he realistically has in the world, just because he is kind of an important figure in their own life, yanno?

And that's why he got plot-yeeted by the author. MC needs to unlearn that,

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

And even if your MC is Brissa's mentee, it is made clear that she secretly held MC at arm's length because her first pick was Aeran and MC was an extra. She'd have to teach MC things and take MC with her, but she did a stty job at it.

A bit of a nitpick but I really dislike how the story makes more sense if Brissa is your mentor. I love Sero but it's true.

 

[Ireth313]

A bit of a nitpick but I really dislike how the story makes more sense if Brissa is your mentor. I love Sero but it's true.

Me: I picked Brissa hoping my MC will get the ability to become a cool spy
Brissa: so what if I halfass MC's training just because I can play favourites and no one will penalise me for it.
Me:

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

How to put it? Unhealthy people are going to give unhealthy (immature etc.) behaviors/reactions. That imo would only really be a problem if MC is not allowed to grow out of that further on.

Wayfarer's MC actually acknowledges being broken and f'd up but only in relation to their relationship with Aeran in chapter 3 and frankly that was one of the most co-dependent internal rambles I've read.

Aeran getting thrown out of the plot is definitely needed for the MCs growth.

 

[Gone_Dead]

Sidenote: intelligent and educated\erudite are two different things. I won't call MC stupid but, I would agree that they are uneducated (which IS kinda irritating to me since I always RP some kind of either bard or wizard) Ig always making MC non-erudite is a lazy plot device to have you learn the lore without reading 983475 entries in the codex; kind of a brother to many games and books making MC amnesiac so that the reader would learn the world along with them).

I mean, RPGs do the thing where the MC themselves respond to circumstances that require historical or political knowledge. The lore exposition happens in the form of MC's thoughts or MC explaining it to a person. That way the reader learns of the lore while also maintaining the MC as an lived character in the world.

Realistically, your MC gets an incentive to study different countries and their political systems only with one of the three mentors (remember, we are in fantasy-esque middle ages or smth, so I assume not everyone in this world can even read; MC being able to read and write is, probably, already a sign of being educated). And even if your MC is Brissa's mentee, it is made clear that she secretly held MC at arm's length because her first pick was Aeran and MC was an extra. She'd have to teach MC things and take MC with her, but she did a stty job at it. Otherwise, it depends on whether MC travelled there or not, and they didn't. If it were up to me, I'd have at least Brissa's mentorship make MC politically savvy instead of coming up with the reasons why a woman who should've taught them a lot about history and politics did a half-assed job at teaching.

They could have done different passive bonuses for each of the mentors. But it will be a lot of work along with the different branches already written. Again if you chose Brissa as your mentor, it's an extra aspect of the frustrations adding to the story. MC were always the second choice. Doesn't help that the story describes Aeran as better than the MC but there's no effort apart from stat checks to appreciate the MCs skills.

You can also get an upper hand in the gala convos, bait Nova into telling you things, bait\persuade that one senator into it, and get an upper hand over mage council when you are persuading them to let you into the tower. Idk about the servant because I was never rude\threatening to them to begin with (why antagonise someone in an already hostile environment who's in charge of your necessities? She also will be rude to you no matter what because she knows you are dependent on her employer; in pecking order MC and Aeran are, technically, lower than her), so I won't argue about the response MC gives.

True, but I don't think a lot of those scenarios of politicking actually pays off.

The servent barges into the room when MC is taking a bath. I think being rude and threatening is a very valid response. Meh it's small things in the way characters respond. It actually mentally reassures you that MC is someone you must be wary around, instead it's just constant belittling of MCs stature. When nobody is threatened by your presence, then you as a reader start losing respect for the MC. Even more if your MC is tall af and has scars all over lol.

It does affect how Aeran behaves in arguments and conflict. E.g. if MC is in a situationship with him, he at least tries to be less of an ahole, and if MC is in full-blown romance with him, he doesn't try to shut them down in the tower at all. In fact, you get a very different conversation. But you can only romance him properly if MC almost dies and Aeran is forced to reconsider that MC is not a permanent fixture in his life, so there's that. He also discloses more if MC is romancing him, but ultimately the ch 3 outcome with him is still the same.

It just reinforces the idea that MC and Aeran's relationship is entirely one sided. Dictated only by Aeran. I hate it. I did choose the option that MC and aeran are good friends but he barely opened up to me. I hate the fact that MC just grovels after him for his attention even after they argue before the tower where he is very rude and cruel with his words.

I also think that MC doesn't even realise they sort of idolise him or envy him (if you have bad relationship). He's just the last part of their surviving identity: I don't like that it's unchangeable, but it's pretty clear that even if your MC didn't like being in the Order, they effing centred their whole identity around it (unlike MC's narrative foil aka Aeran who tried to break away from it). It's also pretty clear that before things fell apart, MC was pretty content being an ordinary soldier and didn't have any ambition to be a leader — and that mindset is kind of hard to shrug off, especially if you can fall back on someone familiar. I don't think it makes them a doormat or spineless, necessarily, but you are right that before the events of the game the only thing truly special around them was their birth circumstances. I am not an author, but reading the IF I kinda assumed that now with Aeran out of the way MC will have no excuses to try and fall back into that soldier role and will be forced to outgrow being a tool they were, quite frankly, raised to be.

I hate it when a characters identity revolves so much around one single character, especially the MC. I never got the idea that MC idolised Aeran and I think it's not flattering to do so considering they joined the order at the same time. There's your mentors to idolise but they idolise the kid they join the order with? It doesn't help that one update takes an year to come out. But over 3 chapters, there hasn't been any character development.

And it's all speculation on our side, MC never clearly expresses their feelings on matters. The author puts no effort to make a bridge between the MC and the reader. Most of the MCs thoughts are them reciting what the learn dramatically.

 

[Gone_Dead]

People snapping at each other from frustration/pressure? If it looks/sounds juvenile, it's because, well, people doing this irl look juvenile as well lol. But it still happens (pretty often imo).
But I disagree that Aeran shuts the MC down here, except in the most basic "shut up" sense. People resort to name-calling when they have no actual arguments, so by that metric, he didn't "shut down" **** and won no argument. I wish there was an option to point that out to him. Therefore, I can understand why one would dislike those scenes, as they present the MC as just as immature/petty as Aeran instead of letting them keep a cool head. But that's just how it is. The MC is not written as someone "above it".

It is shutting us down since the MC has no retort. Even if itsnt meant for Aeran to shut down MC, the dialogue line just reads weird. And the latter of what you said should have been an option if the author doesnt intend for the MC to respond. MC and Aeran are both 30+ btw, Its just so unappealing to write a character act immature when they are well above proper adults. Idk about you guys but i tend to think through all the information we have and how that corrosponds onto the screen. When something contradicts, it irks me and there are so many contradiction to what the MC is and what they are when they act and open their mouth. Its easy to misunderstand what i said so dont jump to conclusions guys.

I didn't get the sense that MC idolizes Aeran. Maybe clinging to him bc he's their childhood friend/crush/lost and found piece of the past and they have no one else, as you said. I think it's an understandable attitude given their situation, if not the most healthy one. But arguably nothing about MC and Aeran and their circumstances or relationship is healthy in general by that point.
How to put it? Unhealthy people are going to give unhealthy (immature etc.) behaviors/reactions. That imo would only really be a problem if MC is not allowed to grow out of that further on.

I dont think any of this is explored clearly. I can get the jist of it and i was able to speculate that MC and Aeran seemed codependent to some degree, but it wasnt properly explored ingame. It was just the occasional arguments here and there and Aeran was even mature enough to end those arguments if the MC doesnt and if relationship is high enough i reckon, idk about low relationship Aeran arguments and i dont really understand them being codependent if MC states they are not close and their lives diverged long ago during the start. See the annoying thing is, when MC goes out of their way to small talk to Aeran despite not liking them or on bad terms, it goes against the agency of the player, thus its rightfully annoying it read. I imagine a romanced Aeran would be a totally different experience, but i played the friendship one and ig it wasnt as fleshed out as romanced Aeran.

I thought MC was stuck just trying to survive, but I might be misremembering.

yay for lots of arguments/discussion on the thread

Aeran seems to have done a hell of a lot more than surviving since the spire's fall. Its a poor excuse that MC spent 5 years wandering barely able to feed themself when Aeran was out there jumping from city to city. And guess what? Aeran started to struggle along with MC as soon as they got together lmao. Ig MC was the problem all along.

 

[jaded]

I've also shared that the game has issues and said that he's right that some stuff is pretty railroaded but it's pretty clear he just dislikes the whole thing and wants it to be something it's not aka a power fantasy with a MC who does nothing but aura farm and has 0 problems.

Besides, I'm not the one here with out of context screenshots in an attempt to prove a point.

Your comment felt pretty dismissive, and I wanted to step in before things escalated. My reply was just a friendly, light-hearted way to get us back on track and keep things from getting personal


I’m just reminding everyone to keep it friendly and not let egos get in the way

 

[veil]

Nobody got offended tho, atleast not me. And nobody is called out on anything. It just seems to me that you're agenda posting. Idk why some people take criticisms towards the game as wanting 'power fantasy.

hell nah what agenda chat relax mate

 

[Parallax]

most authors hate their own MC’s.

Because in interactive fiction, writer must share MC with us. MC isn't entirely theirs and they can't give them one personality etc. They have preferences regarding fictional characters, but they must also take into account the preferences of the players (at least to a minimal extent). And this might lead to not feeling too attached to MC.

NPCs however, are completely theirs, they have freedom in creating them. So many authors are taking advantage of this freedom to create basically Mary and Gary S(t) ue who are more important to the story than the protagonist.

 

[Ireth313]

Doesn't help that the story describes Aeran as better than the MC but there's no effort apart from stat checks to appreciate the MCs skills.

See, here's where subjectivity comes into play because at no moment I felt like Aeran is better or more competent — and I felt that way at first purely because he lacks emotional maturity. Actually, fun fact: in Count fight if MC romancing Aeran trusts him to have their back, he messes up. But if you go about it logically... He was Brissa's mentee,so he should excel at politicking, yet he cannot have a single diplomatic conversation with ANYONE, unlike MC; you can persuade that mother in Rona, the skittish merchant, the voodoo-lady, haggle successfully with imperial folks, with the council, sidestep that senator lady, betray your employer to her mom with zero repercussions... you get it. But whenever Aeran is near, you have to shush him or tell him to reign it in because he behaves like a kid who doesn't want to be there and doesn't try to play nice. Especially when playing nice could get you some advantage or safety. I'd say that as Brissa's student he is a failure, and that's why for me personally it a) stings more that he is still the favourite b) it is clear that Brissa didn't choose her fav based on potential or aptitude, but just... subjectivity. After all, MC has potential that could intrigue Sero who doesn't even take students, while Aeran doesn't.

Like, what did he do better? He failed as Brissa's student despite being given EVERY chance to succeed. He got involved with some very shady ppl due to his lack of foresight (and that lack of foresight is pretty apparent in the way he approaches conversations with every NPC). He managed to fail his ex so much that by the time you meet him, they both hate each other. He decided to keep his friend\lover\peer in the dark about the tragedy that affected them deeply just because. And, the biggest one: he did participate in the fall of the place which, no matter how much he disliked it, took him in.

...gosh, I sound like I hate the guy, but I actually romanced him (he's getting dumped for Melchior tho)

I mean, RPGs do the thing where the MC themselves respond to circumstances that require historical or political knowledge.

Oh, yea, I am not arguing for the Wayfarer's approach. I prefer to have MC be in-context and figure out context myself. Though there are exceptions where it just bogs you down. cough Mage Reborn cough

When nobody is threatened by your presence, then you as a reader start losing respect for the MC.

Not me Personally, I don't think being threatening is smth I value in characters I tend to RP — but we have already established that we might be going through the plot with very different MCs stat- and personality-wise. Plus, I have seen old little ladies and women being absolute jobsworths when faced with men twice their size, that a rando servant being rude and unimpressed doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

It just reinforces the idea that MC and Aeran's relationship is entirely one sided.

It is. I think that in any route that is not MC-almost-dies-romatic-one it is VERY one-sided. Imo he just takes MC for granted in many ways because, as I have mentioned, he doesn't have good foresight and assumes they will be ready to have his back whenever.

But over 3 chapters, there hasn't been any character development.

In 3 chapters we had about 2 weeks (don't quote me on that, I played the chapter when it just came out) of game time pass, I think. Boat trip included. So not exactly much time for any character growth. I assume we are entering MC self-sufficiency era, but what do I know, I am not an author.


Btw, guys. I kept forgetting to ask, but is there a way to solve the tower riddle in ch3 with spirits and all that? My MC kept failing the last step, and I gave up.

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

NPCs however, are completely theirs, they have freedom in creating them. So many authors are taking advantage of this freedom to create basically Mary and Gary S(t) ue who are more important to the story than the protagonist.

They could even put the MC in a cuck chair.

 

[Gone_Dead]

See, here's where subjectivity comes into play because at no moment I felt like Aeran is better or more competent — and I felt that way at first purely because he lacks emotional maturity. Actually, fun fact: in Count fight if MC romancing Aeran trusts him to have their back, he messes up. But if you go about it logically... He was Brissa's mentee,so he should excel at politicking, yet he cannot have a single diplomatic conversation with ANYONE, unlike MC; you can persuade that mother in Rona, the skittish merchant, the voodoo-lady, haggle successfully with imperial folks, with the council, sidestep that senator lady, betray your employer to her mom with zero repercussions... you get it. But whenever Aeran is near, you have to shush him or tell him to reign it in because he behaves like a kid who doesn't want to be there and doesn't try to play nice. Especially when playing nice could get you some advantage or safety. I'd say that as Brissa's student he is a failure, and that's why for me personally it a) stings more that he is still the favourite b) it is clear that Brissa didn't choose her fav based on potential or aptitude, but just... subjectivity. After all, MC has potential that could intrigue Sero who doesn't even take students, while Aeran doesn't.

Like, what did he do better? He failed as Brissa's student despite being given EVERY chance to succeed. He got involved with some very shady ppl due to his lack of foresight (and that lack of foresight is pretty apparent in the way he approaches conversations with every NPC). He managed to fail his ex so much that by the time you meet him, they both hate each other. He decided to keep his friend\lover\peer in the dark about the tragedy that affected them deeply just because. And, the biggest one: he did participate in the fall of the place which, no matter how much he disliked it, took him in.

...gosh, I sound like I hate the guy, but I actually romanced him (he's getting dumped for Melchior tho)

Yes, You are right about everything. I was talking about the acknowledgement part of the characters. MC does all these stuff and the story doesnt acknowledge any of it. I've seen once instance of it during the facedown with the Solarath mages, where Quirinus says something like "This is nothing like facing the count, we are trained mages and there are a dozen of us here.". This is what i was indicating with my previous statement. If you compare it with Aeran, MC claims Aeran has beaten them more times than he has lost, Yet Aeran loses to MC at the result of a single stat check after MC fights multiple mages, beasts and a brightblade. Contradiction and its not acknowledged once. This is also what i meant when i said i tend to keep all information at the back of my mind when i read. Zenaida claims she was only tracking Aeran, didnt intend to track MC and was unable to track MC cuz they mightve covered their tracks expertly. This seems like a compliment, but MC immediately corrects her that they didnt cover any tracks and were travelling with Aeran for a long time. To this Malsara says that atleast its a confirmation that MC is not smart enough to cover their tracks (another jab at MC, and they dont even continue their line of questioning). Its like the characters and the story is pretending that the MC doesnt exist outside the stat checks. Like the MC doesnt have any stakes in the world. This is what i meant in my previous message when i said there's no effort to appreciate the MC aside from stat checks. You also see that the story or the MC does not want to chastise Aeran at all. The story treats Aeran more as an MC than the actual MC. But the story is first to mention the MC's incompetence at the first chance possible. (in the instance of purposefully playing a incompetent MC) Aeran even mocks and chastises the MC multiple times about having to save their *** everytime if you have low relationship with him. MC fails? lets double down on it. MC wins? Lets pretend we never saw it.

Oh, yea, I am not arguing for the Wayfarer's approach. I prefer to have MC be in-context and figure out context myself. Though there are exceptions where it just bogs you down. cough Mage Reborn cough

Yes lmao, It gives 2 pages of MC's inner monologue of them giving us readers a history lesson.

Not me Personally, I don't think being threatening is smth I value in characters I tend to RP — but we have already established that we might be going through the plot with very different MCs stat- and personality-wise. Plus, I have seen old little ladies and women being absolute jobsworths when faced with men twice their size, that a rando servant being rude and unimpressed doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Thats the point of RPing tho. Wayfarer lacks any sort of Roleplaying. I want my MC to be menacing here and there, the story allegedly gives me one chance to do it and guess what? it doesnt work.

It is. I think that in any route that is not MC-almost-dies-romatic-one it is VERY one-sided. Imo he just takes MC for granted in many ways because, as I have mentioned, he doesn't have good foresight and assumes they will be ready to have his back whenever.

Again, we cant confront him about his misgivings and the story doesnt really care to address it. Which is annoying cuz the story is the first one to punish MC for being bad at what they do and the story dissapears when MC succeeds at anything.

In 3 chapters we had about 2 weeks (don't quote me on that, I played the chapter when it just came out) of game time pass, I think. Boat trip included. So not exactly much time for any character growth. I assume we are entering MC self-sufficiency era, but what do I know, I am not an author.

Its just above a month, a day at Rona, a month on the ship, around 3 days in the city. Its just that the pacing is very slow. In 3 chapters theres a lot of words yet the story hasnt really progressed much. Same complaint as TGR.

Btw, guys. I kept forgetting to ask, but is there a way to solve the tower riddle in ch3 with spirits and all that? My MC kept failing the last step, and I gave up.

I have no idea. I didnt really know there were steps lol. How do you do that?

 

[Ireth313]

but MC immediately corrects her that they didnt cover any tracks and were travelling with Aeran for a long time. To this Malsara says that atleast its a confirmation that MC is not smart enough to cover their tracks (another jab at MC, and they dont even continue their line of questioning).

Yeah but MC saying that they didn't cover their tracks is a jab at Malsara like 'lol I wasn't even hiding, and you couldn't find me, some master spymaster you are'. It's just them being passive-aggressive at each other for a bit and then moving on.

Its like the characters and the story is pretending that the MC doesnt exist outside the stat checks.

Not really. At the gala ppl are looking for MC specifically — not for Aeran. Mostly the imperial crowd is talking about Aeran so much because he has notoriety among them (and we know it's not a good kind of notoriety). I think it also highly depends on your rep with the factions.

But the story is first to mention the MC's incompetence at the first chance possible.

Because MC is surrounded by people who gain nothing by praising their competence. Imperials? They praise MC — they have to pay MC more or have to agree to some even\middle ground. And MC is not even that special as a Wayfarer; they don't have any notable past unless you pick a specific backstory for them. (Like, I remember that people wanted to comment on my MC being the pirate heir for sure.) Quirinus would only praise MC for his own gain, though he does praise them at least thrice, iirc, if you have good rep with him and pick correct choices: at the boat, at the gala, and during final confrontation. Melchior and Veyer do praise MC, but they both have a bit of an agenda. Viridian lady acknowledges MC if you side with her (at least she did in the old version; not sure about the new one). You can even get Malsara (or was it her sis? don't remember) to begrudgingly acknowledge that she might've been wrong about MC.

MC wins? Lets pretend we never saw it.

Which wins are we talking about here? Rona is a small backwater town, so your adventure here is like lvl 1 quest to most NPCs. If you talk down the council, it gets acknowledged. Qiqi even recalls the whole Fanarl thing if you made an impression on him as a kid. Aside from that there wasn't much happening that deserved acknowledging.

Thats the point of RPing tho. Wayfarer lacks any sort of Roleplaying. I want my MC to be menacing here and there, the story allegedly gives me one chance to do it and guess what? it doesnt work.

Nah, I was saying that these kinds of ppl like that servant, imo, won't get intimidated unless you get physically threatening with them. She knows you are her employer's contract-slave and is probably well-aware you are unarmed; she also resents MC and thinks they are some type of sub-human thing, and she is well-aware that their Order carries no weight anymore. So MC has to do smth really deranged to shatter her confidence. Maybe the words MC used were not how you would've worded it, but I'd wager that it's like a D30 intimidation check with an advantage situation.

I have no idea. I didnt really know there were steps lol. How do you do that?

Ok, so I think that if you investigate everything properly, you can somehow get rid of what is haunting the tower but I got all the way to confronting it in some spiritual-world-like dimension and then it didn't go away. I tried out a lot of combos but maybe there's a hidden skill check somewhere. Or is this thing unvanquishable? I still have no idea, man...

 

[Gone_Dead]

Yeah but MC saying that they didn't cover their tracks is a jab at Malsara like 'lol I wasn't even hiding, and you couldn't find me, some master spymaster you are'. It's just them being passive-aggressive at each other for a bit and then moving on.

Yes, this is what came to my mind first. Yet MC isnt witty enough to take jab back at her. They are both not passive aggressive, its just MC being passive and Malsara being aggressive.

Not really. At the gala ppl are looking for MC specifically — not for Aeran. Mostly the imperial crowd is talking about Aeran so much because he has notoriety among them (and we know it's not a good kind of notoriety). I think it also highly depends on your rep with the factions.

Thats not the kind of acknoledgement i was talking about, its them looking at MC like they were looking at a zoo animal lol.

Because MC is surrounded by people who gain nothing by praising their competence. Imperials? They praise MC — they have to pay MC more or have to agree to some even\middle ground. And MC is not even that special as a Wayfarer; they don't have any notable past unless you pick a specific backstory for them. (Like, I remember that people wanted to comment on my MC being the pirate heir for sure.) Quirinus would only praise MC for his own gain, though he does praise them at least thrice, iirc, if you have good rep with him and pick correct choices: at the boat, at the gala, and during final confrontation. Melchior and Veyer do praise MC, but they both have a bit of an agenda. Viridian lady acknowledges MC if you side with her (at least she did in the old version; not sure about the new one). You can even get Malsara (or was it her sis? don't remember) to begrudgingly acknowledge that she might've been wrong about MC.

Fair enough. MC has no past as a wayfarer. They're just a normie. Backstories are for before they joined the order right? I dont really remember Quirinus praising MC, i did have favourable relationship with Solarath. You said it yourself, Melchior, Veyer and Viridian lady all have agendas. And i wouldnt really call it praise, its more like them saying "you did the right thing" in a manipulative and condescending way. Malsara does go out of her way and says she respects us, but thats after 99% of her interactions being insulting or making small of the MC. Its more impactfuly coming out of Zenaida's father and her tho. She was atleast respectful most of the time. Too bad she isnt romancable lol. I mean, Malsara or even Nova would be a good frenemies to lovers i think.

There's also the fact that there is literally no female romance so far lol. I believe Aeran romance is blinding a lot of people since he has 3 chapters worth of content and a major role in the plot.

Nah, I was saying that these kinds of ppl like that servant, imo, won't get intimidated unless you get physically threatening with them. She knows you are her employer's contract-slave and is probably well-aware you are unarmed; she also resents MC and thinks they are some type of sub-human thing, and she is well-aware that their Order carries no weight anymore. So MC has to do smth really deranged to shatter her confidence. Maybe the words MC used were not how you would've worded it, but I'd wager that it's like a D30 intimidation check with an advantage situation.

I was talking purely about RPing and gave an example, there is no possiblity of it. Why cant i be menacing? Tbh even those people from the grove who were just civillians arent intimidated by MC. None of the civillians in Rona were even a bit concerned about the MC, Even the kids insult the MC lol. Like you said, its not like Rona an imperial capital full of nobles is it? You cant be intimidating, you cant be sarcastic, you cant be rude. What's the point of writing an IF then? The MC doesnt even have a solid personality and character to justify not giving us these options.

Ok, so I think that if you investigate everything properly, you can somehow get rid of what is haunting the tower but I got all the way to confronting it in some spiritual-world-like dimension and then it didn't go away. I tried out a lot of combos but maybe there's a hidden skill check somewhere. Or is this thing unvanquishable? I still have no idea, man...

You can kill the shroud without fighting it then? I suspected we could do something like that i cant figure out anything with the branching being so chaotic. So i guess we can prevent an injury by dealing with shroud by investigating.

 

[hng21089]

Anyone played God Syndicate? I did like it but oh god, it will take years to finish. Maybe as many as Infamous.

im happy to wait, tbh this game is better than infamous (i know they’re not same genre yes) the characters is interesting while most of infamous’s character r boring af
good games take times(although sometimes authors just lazy or completely missing )

 

[Ireth313]

"you did the right thing" in a manipulative and condescending way

lol no for Melchior it's more like 'you're a novelty and I want in your pants also kudos on being a good liar' and for Veyer it's more like 'thank god you can act reasonably and not like Aeran, wanna bang?'. The tone you get is highly dependant on the tone you set.

Yet MC isnt witty enough to take jab back at her

Why does MC have to get back at her? They are discussing other matters, and Malsara knows she showed herself a fool there, so she just throws back an insult. But then again, it's up to how you interpret social clues. Someone would go 'HA she had the last word therefore she won' and someone would go 'they both know she just admitted she is not as good as she claimed and tried to insult MC to feel better about herself like a child'.

Tbh even those people from the grove who were just civillians arent intimidated by MC.

Who do you want to intimidate exactly? I explained why it wouldn't work with the servant: you'd probably need to get physical, and then it'll lead to MC getting their ahh whooped by the guards or smth. The politicians, the count, the mages — none of them are scared of MC because they all are firmly in a position of power. Once again, short of drawing a sword at them (which will be a dead end), you won't scare them. And if MC were to try to threaten them, well, then they'd make a fool of themselves, and you'll be there saying that MC is spineless because no one fears them IIRC, you can double-threaten that merchant guy in Rona, the mother (though I only tried it in the pre-rewrite version, so don't remember if it stayed in the newer one), the lady that took the chalice, the bandits, and the punk that tried to rob you, and, not sure if this one was left in the current version, the mage apprentice in Rona. Basically, people you can threaten with brute force or by just being big and looking scary. Which tracks because MC has no positive or negative rep, but they are a magiani, so... kind of a freak in their eyes. Overall, circling back to your starting thesis, I don't think the MC is spineless, I think they are just written in a way you wouldn't play them (which is valid; I don't play PoMA or DAO Ascension for exactly same reasons, and I like Wayfarer because it gets about 80-85% of what I want my MC to act in this situation, realistically.)

I believe Aeran romance is blinding a lot of people since he has 3 chapters worth of content and a major role in the plot.

I think the author said that all the romances are kicking off somewhere after ch4 with the exception of Aeran. He's probably shoved forward now because he'll be absent the next 2-3 chapters, is my guess. I also don't think Aeran's romance is blinding anyone per se, it's just that by romancing him you do get more content and lore (hence why in IFs I am team 'romance everyone until the game forces you to choose')

You can kill the shroud without fighting it then?

From the way the game behaved when I was investigating, I got a feeling you can. I got to talk to it, but then my MC was like NOPE NO COMPRENDO and I had to fight it... But now I looked through the official discord, and, apparently, you can't. Citing from the author:
There are three main endings, but there are numerous variations in each that will continue to shape your Wayfarer's journey. The three are:

Undercity + safe (MC can escape by themself or, in some cases, with an injured Veyer),
Undercity + unconscious,
Themistrya,


You can reach the Undercity + safe ending without going to the battlements in some continuities. Undercity + unconscious can only happen if you reach the battlements. The Themistrya ending cannot be accessed if you reach the battlements.

Additionally there are 9 ways the Astrial can be destroyed which will have consequences in the future. The Astrial will always be destroyed, one way or another. The Shroud will also always be destroyed, either by Aeran or the MC.

 

[Gone_Dead]

Why does MC have to get back at her? They are discussing other matters, and Malsara knows she showed herself a fool there, so she just throws back an insult. But then again, it's up to how you interpret social clues. Someone would go 'HA she had the last word therefore she won' and someone would go 'they both know she just admitted she is not as good as she claimed and tried to insult MC to feel better about herself like a child'.


Who do you want to intimidate exactly? I explained why it wouldn't work with the servant: you'd probably need to get physical, and then it'll lead to MC getting their ahh whooped by the guards or smth. The politicians, the count, the mages — none of them are scared of MC because they all are firmly in a position of power. Once again, short of drawing a sword at them (which will be a dead end), you won't scare them. And if MC were to try to threaten them, well, then they'd make a fool of themselves, and you'll be there saying that MC is spineless because no one fears them IIRC, you can double-threaten that merchant guy in Rona, the mother (though I only tried it in the pre-rewrite version, so don't remember if it stayed in the newer one), the lady that took the chalice, the bandits, and the punk that tried to rob you, and, not sure if this one was left in the current version, the mage apprentice in Rona. Basically, people you can threaten with brute force or by just being big and looking scary. Which tracks because MC has no positive or negative rep, but they are a magiani, so... kind of a freak in their eyes. Overall, circling back to your starting thesis, I don't think the MC is spineless, I think they are just written in a way you wouldn't play them (which is valid; I don't play PoMA or DAO Ascension for exactly same reasons, and I like Wayfarer because it gets about 80-85% of what I want my MC to act in this situation, realistically.)

All you're doing is giving excuses to why MC cant act a way in an IF. And you're twisting the context of my message. I was talking about RPing from the players perspective. You said you cant be menacing in a noble palace, i said Rona is not really a noble palace but youre giving excuses to why MC cant be menacing to regular civillians anyway. This is not a novel. And i wouldnt care if MC voices out their thoughts on why they do what and how they respond to stuff. You see that in IF's with established MC's with a mostly set personality. You can understand why they act the way they do and why their choices are limited but that is not the case in Wayfarer. There is no effort put to push the readers into the mind of the MC, which led me to believe that the Wayfarer MC is more of a blank slate MC than a predefined MC. I'm simply saying from my experience of the game, i never complained when for example Sidestep does half the **** they do in FH, because its established. The author put an effort to push the reader into the mindset of the character, thus we dont complain when we dont see a specific response we conjured up in our head. Their personality is mostly defined by their past. You can control sidestep within that specific spectrum. Nothing in Wayfarer convinces me that the MC will act in a specific spectrum. Thus it annoyed me to no end that the MC not only didnt have a personality, they werent a true blank slate character either. Contradictions, like i said before.

From the way the game behaved when I was investigating, I got a feeling you can. I got to talk to it, but then my MC was like NOPE NO COMPRENDO and I had to fight it... But now I looked through the official discord, and, apparently, you can't. Citing from the author:
There are three main endings, but there are numerous variations in each that will continue to shape your Wayfarer's journey. The three are:

Undercity + safe (MC can escape by themself or, in some cases, with an injured Veyer),
Undercity + unconscious,
Themistrya,


You can reach the Undercity + safe ending without going to the battlements in some continuities. Undercity + unconscious can only happen if you reach the battlements. The Themistrya ending cannot be accessed if you reach the battlements.

Additionally there are 9 ways the Astrial can be destroyed which will have consequences in the future. The Astrial will always be destroyed, one way or another. The Shroud will also always be destroyed, either by Aeran or the MC.

Spoiler

Isnt Themistrya a prison? Is there an ending where we could get captured? I imagine safe undercity is if we succed stat checks, unconsious is if we fail, but what about the third?

Also i didnt know there were 9 ways the Astrial could be destroyed lmao. Thats a lot. I destroyed it when i handed it to Veyer and i havent a clue how it happened. I guess that Veyer's plan was always to destroy it. Do you know what the other 8 ways are?