Stories that left you disappointed for a reason

[Gone_Dead]

Bro yall need to chill out And why is everyone offended when called out for wanting a power fantasy y'all are acting like someone called you a slur or smth it's js a game it's not that deep gng

Nobody got offended tho, atleast not me. And nobody is called out on anything. It just seems to me that you're agenda posting. Idk why some people take criticisms towards the game as wanting 'power fantasy'.

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

Why? That's his opinion, and he's explained his reasons in great detail

Just a quick reminder that this thread is for sharing different perspectives. We're not here to debate who is right or wrong, so please keep your comments respectful and openminded

@yourstalkeroutside and @Ireth313 THAT'S HIS OPINION!!!

I've also shared that the game has issues and said that he's right that some stuff is pretty railroaded but it's pretty clear he just dislikes the whole thing and wants it to be something it's not aka a power fantasy with a MC who does nothing but aura farm and has 0 problems.

Besides, I'm not the one here with out of context screenshots in an attempt to prove a point.

 

[Ireth313]

robably even lower than that considering they dont know anything about existing information

Sidenote: intelligent and educated\erudite are two different things. I won't call MC stupid but, I would agree that they are uneducated (which IS kinda irritating to me since I always RP some kind of either bard or wizard) Ig always making MC non-erudite is a lazy plot device to have you learn the lore without reading 983475 entries in the codex; kind of a brother to many games and books making MC amnesiac so that the reader would learn the world along with them).

Realistically, your MC gets an incentive to study different countries and their political systems only with one of the three mentors (remember, we are in fantasy-esque middle ages or smth, so I assume not everyone in this world can even read; MC being able to read and write is, probably, already a sign of being educated). And even if your MC is Brissa's mentee, it is made clear that she secretly held MC at arm's length because her first pick was Aeran and MC was an extra. She'd have to teach MC things and take MC with her, but she did a stty job at it. Otherwise, it depends on whether MC travelled there or not, and they didn't. If it were up to me, I'd have at least Brissa's mentorship make MC politically savvy instead of coming up with the reasons why a woman who should've taught them a lot about history and politics did a half-assed job at teaching.

they cant hold a verbal battle

You can also get an upper hand in the gala convos, bait Nova into telling you things, bait\persuade that one senator into it, and get an upper hand over mage council when you are persuading them to let you into the tower. Idk about the servant because I was never rude\threatening to them to begin with (why antagonise someone in an already hostile environment who's in charge of your necessities? She also will be rude to you no matter what because she knows you are dependent on her employer; in pecking order MC and Aeran are, technically, lower than her), so I won't argue about the response MC gives.

If MC is supposed to idolize Aeran, they why do we even get a choice to choose their relationship?

It does affect how Aeran behaves in arguments and conflict. E.g. if MC is in a situationship with him, he at least tries to be less of an ahole, and if MC is in full-blown romance with him, he doesn't try to shut them down in the tower at all. In fact, you get a very different conversation. But you can only romance him properly if MC almost dies and Aeran is forced to reconsider that MC is not a permanent fixture in his life, so there's that. He also discloses more if MC is romancing him, but ultimately the ch 3 outcome with him is still the same.

I also think that MC doesn't even realise they sort of idolise him or envy him (if you have bad relationship). He's just the last part of their surviving identity: I don't like that it's unchangeable, but it's pretty clear that even if your MC didn't like being in the Order, they effing centred their whole identity around it (unlike MC's narrative foil aka Aeran who tried to break away from it). It's also pretty clear that before things fell apart, MC was pretty content being an ordinary soldier and didn't have any ambition to be a leader — and that mindset is kind of hard to shrug off, especially if you can fall back on someone familiar. I don't think it makes them a doormat or spineless, necessarily, but you are right that before the events of the game the only thing truly special around them was their birth circumstances. I am not an author, but reading the IF I kinda assumed that now with Aeran out of the way MC will have no excuses to try and fall back into that soldier role and will be forced to outgrow being a tool they were, quite frankly, raised to be.

 

[seneya]

Wtf are these choices and wtf are those responses?

People snapping at each other from frustration/pressure? If it looks/sounds juvenile, it's because, well, people doing this irl look juvenile as well lol. But it still happens (pretty often imo).
But I disagree that Aeran shuts the MC down here, except in the most basic "shut up" sense. People resort to name-calling when they have no actual arguments, so by that metric, he didn't "shut down" **** and won no argument. I wish there was an option to point that out to him. Therefore, I can understand why one would dislike those scenes, as they present the MC as just as immature/petty as Aeran instead of letting them keep a cool head. But that's just how it is. The MC is not written as someone "above it".

If MC is supposed to idolize Aeran

I didn't get the sense that MC idolizes Aeran. Maybe clinging to him bc he's their childhood friend/crush/lost and found piece of the past and they have no one else, as you said. I think it's an understandable attitude given their situation, if not the most healthy one. But arguably nothing about MC and Aeran and their circumstances or relationship is healthy in general by that point.
How to put it? Unhealthy people are going to give unhealthy (immature etc.) behaviors/reactions. That imo would only really be a problem if MC is not allowed to grow out of that further on.

the MC didnt really have the guts to investigate what happened at the Spire

I thought MC was stuck just trying to survive, but I might be misremembering.

yay for lots of arguments/discussion on the thread

 

[Ireth313]

I didn't get the sense that MC idolizes Aeran.

I think they sort of do in a way that they somehow expect him to be the one with the answers? E.g., reading I got that undercurrent of 'if only Aeran fessed up RIGHT NOW! Then all will be nice and clear and the mess will somehow fix itself'. Maybe idolises is not the right word, but they do ascribe way more significance to him than he realistically has in the world, just because he is kind of an important figure in their own life, yanno?

And that's why he got plot-yeeted by the author. MC needs to unlearn that,

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

And even if your MC is Brissa's mentee, it is made clear that she secretly held MC at arm's length because her first pick was Aeran and MC was an extra. She'd have to teach MC things and take MC with her, but she did a stty job at it.

A bit of a nitpick but I really dislike how the story makes more sense if Brissa is your mentor. I love Sero but it's true.

 

[Ireth313]

A bit of a nitpick but I really dislike how the story makes more sense if Brissa is your mentor. I love Sero but it's true.

Me: I picked Brissa hoping my MC will get the ability to become a cool spy
Brissa: so what if I halfass MC's training just because I can play favourites and no one will penalise me for it.
Me:

 

[yourstalkeroutside]

How to put it? Unhealthy people are going to give unhealthy (immature etc.) behaviors/reactions. That imo would only really be a problem if MC is not allowed to grow out of that further on.

Wayfarer's MC actually acknowledges being broken and f'd up but only in relation to their relationship with Aeran in chapter 3 and frankly that was one of the most co-dependent internal rambles I've read.

Aeran getting thrown out of the plot is definitely needed for the MCs growth.

 

[Gone_Dead]

Sidenote: intelligent and educated\erudite are two different things. I won't call MC stupid but, I would agree that they are uneducated (which IS kinda irritating to me since I always RP some kind of either bard or wizard) Ig always making MC non-erudite is a lazy plot device to have you learn the lore without reading 983475 entries in the codex; kind of a brother to many games and books making MC amnesiac so that the reader would learn the world along with them).

I mean, RPGs do the thing where the MC themselves respond to circumstances that require historical or political knowledge. The lore exposition happens in the form of MC's thoughts or MC explaining it to a person. That way the reader learns of the lore while also maintaining the MC as an lived character in the world.

Realistically, your MC gets an incentive to study different countries and their political systems only with one of the three mentors (remember, we are in fantasy-esque middle ages or smth, so I assume not everyone in this world can even read; MC being able to read and write is, probably, already a sign of being educated). And even if your MC is Brissa's mentee, it is made clear that she secretly held MC at arm's length because her first pick was Aeran and MC was an extra. She'd have to teach MC things and take MC with her, but she did a stty job at it. Otherwise, it depends on whether MC travelled there or not, and they didn't. If it were up to me, I'd have at least Brissa's mentorship make MC politically savvy instead of coming up with the reasons why a woman who should've taught them a lot about history and politics did a half-assed job at teaching.

They could have done different passive bonuses for each of the mentors. But it will be a lot of work along with the different branches already written. Again if you chose Brissa as your mentor, it's an extra aspect of the frustrations adding to the story. MC were always the second choice. Doesn't help that the story describes Aeran as better than the MC but there's no effort apart from stat checks to appreciate the MCs skills.

You can also get an upper hand in the gala convos, bait Nova into telling you things, bait\persuade that one senator into it, and get an upper hand over mage council when you are persuading them to let you into the tower. Idk about the servant because I was never rude\threatening to them to begin with (why antagonise someone in an already hostile environment who's in charge of your necessities? She also will be rude to you no matter what because she knows you are dependent on her employer; in pecking order MC and Aeran are, technically, lower than her), so I won't argue about the response MC gives.

True, but I don't think a lot of those scenarios of politicking actually pays off.

The servent barges into the room when MC is taking a bath. I think being rude and threatening is a very valid response. Meh it's small things in the way characters respond. It actually mentally reassures you that MC is someone you must be wary around, instead it's just constant belittling of MCs stature. When nobody is threatened by your presence, then you as a reader start losing respect for the MC. Even more if your MC is tall af and has scars all over lol.

It does affect how Aeran behaves in arguments and conflict. E.g. if MC is in a situationship with him, he at least tries to be less of an ahole, and if MC is in full-blown romance with him, he doesn't try to shut them down in the tower at all. In fact, you get a very different conversation. But you can only romance him properly if MC almost dies and Aeran is forced to reconsider that MC is not a permanent fixture in his life, so there's that. He also discloses more if MC is romancing him, but ultimately the ch 3 outcome with him is still the same.

It just reinforces the idea that MC and Aeran's relationship is entirely one sided. Dictated only by Aeran. I hate it. I did choose the option that MC and aeran are good friends but he barely opened up to me. I hate the fact that MC just grovels after him for his attention even after they argue before the tower where he is very rude and cruel with his words.

I also think that MC doesn't even realise they sort of idolise him or envy him (if you have bad relationship). He's just the last part of their surviving identity: I don't like that it's unchangeable, but it's pretty clear that even if your MC didn't like being in the Order, they effing centred their whole identity around it (unlike MC's narrative foil aka Aeran who tried to break away from it). It's also pretty clear that before things fell apart, MC was pretty content being an ordinary soldier and didn't have any ambition to be a leader — and that mindset is kind of hard to shrug off, especially if you can fall back on someone familiar. I don't think it makes them a doormat or spineless, necessarily, but you are right that before the events of the game the only thing truly special around them was their birth circumstances. I am not an author, but reading the IF I kinda assumed that now with Aeran out of the way MC will have no excuses to try and fall back into that soldier role and will be forced to outgrow being a tool they were, quite frankly, raised to be.

I hate it when a characters identity revolves so much around one single character, especially the MC. I never got the idea that MC idolised Aeran and I think it's not flattering to do so considering they joined the order at the same time. There's your mentors to idolise but they idolise the kid they join the order with? It doesn't help that one update takes an year to come out. But over 3 chapters, there hasn't been any character development.

And it's all speculation on our side, MC never clearly expresses their feelings on matters. The author puts no effort to make a bridge between the MC and the reader. Most of the MCs thoughts are them reciting what the learn dramatically.

 

[Gone_Dead]

People snapping at each other from frustration/pressure? If it looks/sounds juvenile, it's because, well, people doing this irl look juvenile as well lol. But it still happens (pretty often imo).
But I disagree that Aeran shuts the MC down here, except in the most basic "shut up" sense. People resort to name-calling when they have no actual arguments, so by that metric, he didn't "shut down" **** and won no argument. I wish there was an option to point that out to him. Therefore, I can understand why one would dislike those scenes, as they present the MC as just as immature/petty as Aeran instead of letting them keep a cool head. But that's just how it is. The MC is not written as someone "above it".

It is shutting us down since the MC has no retort. Even if itsnt meant for Aeran to shut down MC, the dialogue line just reads weird. And the latter of what you said should have been an option if the author doesnt intend for the MC to respond. MC and Aeran are both 30+ btw, Its just so unappealing to write a character act immature when they are well above proper adults. Idk about you guys but i tend to think through all the information we have and how that corrosponds onto the screen. When something contradicts, it irks me and there are so many contradiction to what the MC is and what they are when they act and open their mouth. Its easy to misunderstand what i said so dont jump to conclusions guys.

I didn't get the sense that MC idolizes Aeran. Maybe clinging to him bc he's their childhood friend/crush/lost and found piece of the past and they have no one else, as you said. I think it's an understandable attitude given their situation, if not the most healthy one. But arguably nothing about MC and Aeran and their circumstances or relationship is healthy in general by that point.
How to put it? Unhealthy people are going to give unhealthy (immature etc.) behaviors/reactions. That imo would only really be a problem if MC is not allowed to grow out of that further on.

I dont think any of this is explored clearly. I can get the jist of it and i was able to speculate that MC and Aeran seemed codependent to some degree, but it wasnt properly explored ingame. It was just the occasional arguments here and there and Aeran was even mature enough to end those arguments if the MC doesnt and if relationship is high enough i reckon, idk about low relationship Aeran arguments and i dont really understand them being codependent if MC states they are not close and their lives diverged long ago during the start. See the annoying thing is, when MC goes out of their way to small talk to Aeran despite not liking them or on bad terms, it goes against the agency of the player, thus its rightfully annoying it read. I imagine a romanced Aeran would be a totally different experience, but i played the friendship one and ig it wasnt as fleshed out as romanced Aeran.

I thought MC was stuck just trying to survive, but I might be misremembering.

yay for lots of arguments/discussion on the thread

Aeran seems to have done a hell of a lot more than surviving since the spire's fall. Its a poor excuse that MC spent 5 years wandering barely able to feed themself when Aeran was out there jumping from city to city. And guess what? Aeran started to struggle along with MC as soon as they got together lmao. Ig MC was the problem all along.

 

[jaded]

I've also shared that the game has issues and said that he's right that some stuff is pretty railroaded but it's pretty clear he just dislikes the whole thing and wants it to be something it's not aka a power fantasy with a MC who does nothing but aura farm and has 0 problems.

Besides, I'm not the one here with out of context screenshots in an attempt to prove a point.

Your comment felt pretty dismissive, and I wanted to step in before things escalated. My reply was just a friendly, light-hearted way to get us back on track and keep things from getting personal


I’m just reminding everyone to keep it friendly and not let egos get in the way

 

[veil]

Nobody got offended tho, atleast not me. And nobody is called out on anything. It just seems to me that you're agenda posting. Idk why some people take criticisms towards the game as wanting 'power fantasy.

hell nah what agenda chat relax mate