Stories that left you disappointed for a reason

[seneya]

authors writing opposite gender MCs/characters

Meanwhile it's like... feelings are feelings. I could write from the PoV of a man, a woman, a dragon, or a sentient toaster, and I don't feel it would've made much difference. Feelings are universal for everyone sentient.
People sometimes overcomplicate things.

 

[Parallax]

Btw. ALWAYS MALE GENDERLOCKED GAME WHERE?

Lol! There's that Infinity series and a game or two in Hearts Choices but those are pretty old. The number of WIPs and new releases (especially if you include the ones on itch.io) with female MC is incredibly high compared to male gender-locked IFs. And everyone is okay with it.

 

[Gone_Dead]

Meanwhile it's like... feelings are feelings. I could write from the PoV of a man, a woman, a dragon, or a sentient toaster, and I don't feel it would've made much difference. Feelings are universal for everyone sentient.
People sometimes overcomplicate things.

Its more that people are scared they would be accused of misrepresentation. There can be two types of writing styles, one where the mindscape of MC is not touched deep and another is where MC's feelings are touched upon often. Authors need to find the sweet spot to make the MC relatable to both male and female audience. And authors do this by centering the story around MC. Fallen Hero, Golden Rose, ITFO comprise of the latter and the sandboxy IF's comprise of the former. Both have its challenges, wordcount, branching, plotline, storytelling all is affected by the style of writing.

Fallen Hero does the best in this regards imo. There is branching, the writing style is fairly descritive although sometimes you cant understand **** during dream sequences. I had a thought that maybe the story was written around the concept of representation rather than writing a story for the sake of a story. The MC happens to be traumatized and is not comfortable in their body due to their origins, has a second body they can jump to and be 'comfortable', body swap into that body permemntantly based on your comfort in that body. Half the story is about this. Yet this is sympathisable regardless of your gender. Cis people would find it uncomfortable swapping into puppet and see it only as a tool and vice versa for trans people. Tbh this is one of the biggest reasons why people love FH considering how much of IF community values representation and inclusion which is not a bad thing unless the rest of IF takes a hit for it.

So what im trying to say is, if you are confident you can manage representation, inclusivity etc without affecting the other parts of the IF then fine, if not then thats fine too. No need to bully one or the other side.

 

[bosslady]

Then I came across a thread here with more info about the author, and honestly, it made me even less inclined to pick it up again.

Hello, care to share? I'm curious!

 

[MalloryV]

Listens but doesn't do anything about it, huh? Otherwise, they would have done something about the healer a long time ago. This character and the total lack of freedom in relationships with them is unacceptable in interactive fiction. A middle finger to the players.

I mean, they are rewriting it now. Plus, there were changes. Writing a book, let alone a game, is not easy and much less is it something fast.

Furthermore, just because some authors (e.g., The Night Market) treat any criticism poorly and do nothing, doesn't mean all authors will do the same.

I want to give the author my trust, instead of just being cynical.

 

[SasariRomanii]

Lol! There's that Infinity series and a game or two in Hearts Choices but those are pretty old. The number of WIPs and new releases (especially if you include the ones on itch.io) with female MC is incredibly high compared to male gender-locked IFs. And everyone is okay with it.

Oh I was more referring to the generalization of this problem, since pompompurrin (NOT the wholesome Pompompurrin why's this user gotta drag my boy's name like THAT? T_T) seems to be quite convinced that only male genderlocked games are like this when in reality it's just not like that, ya know? Like.... uuugh, sorry, thinking is hard I just gotta hope I got my point across

 

[game_hunt3r]

I think the biggest issue games like Aura Clash and POMA have, stems from the fact that they're very obviously written for a male!MC, and the fem!MC is an afterthought shoehorned in. It's why they have so many pronoun issues, and the romances suffer for it too because they write heterosexual love interests and only focused on the female LI's. Hunter Sky also had this problem.

But in saying that, the author of POMA can write a decent fem!MC romance, as shown by his Jinali game.

 

[BiscuitB]

I mean the one of the problems I find is that they try or may e want to try but you've seen how much hate can happen from a simple mistake. Now I get the point of why not do research? Why not speak to authors that have experience doing so?

However the mass produced books we get in the industry especially in romance I never/rarely see a female author write a Male centred MC in a romance book. shouldn't we hate on authors shitty practices? Instead of hating on them not being about to write something to just suit your needs?

 

[seneya]

stems from the fact that they're very obviously written for a male!MC

Just as there are games that are written with a female MC in mind ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not a big deal imo. Some men still enjoyed Wayhaven, no?

and the fem!MC is an afterthought shoehorned in

Still beats not having that option at all.
The author making an effort (any additional options are effort) for an imperfect result is still, well, an effort they didn't have to make at all, and better than nothing.
Sure, send feedback, but overall I'm of an opinion that if you feel the game is not for you, it's better to move on than to try and get the author to change stuff.

because they write heterosexual love interests

Afaik both authors of AC and PoMA are from Russia? Anything to do with LGBT is just straight up forbidden there. (return to traditional values etc etc, the government is kinda crazy about it) Ok, corrected, only PoMA author is Russian

 

[Sokrates]

Lol. I was right on the "wanting to play dating simulators instead of actually well-written IFs/j

Anyway, I played Aura Clash and the writing is atrocious. How people can enjoy it, I have no idea. And yes, I played with both a male and female MC. Still boring.

 

[seneya]

How people can enjoy it, I have no idea

By not taking it too seriously (since it doesn't take itself seriously either), and focusing on stat-building to go ballistic during fights
It kinda scratches my "replay to get that perfect build" itch

 

[God]

Just as there are games that are written with a female MC in mind ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not a big deal imo. Some men still enjoyed Wayhaven, no?

Still beats not having that option at all.
The author making an effort (any additional options are effort) for an imperfect result is still, well, an effort they didn't have to make at all, and better than nothing.
Sure, send feedback, but overall I'm of an opinion that if you feel the game is not for you, it's better to move on than to try and get the author to change stuff.

Afaik both authors of AC and PoMA are from Russia? Anything to do with LGBT is just straight up forbidden there. (return to traditional values etc etc, the government is kinda crazy about it)

Nah only Poma had the Russia problem and had to change it, Anon wasn’t comfortable writing non straight relationships and that’s fine, dude hardly can write a female MC route. Let Anon rock.

 

[seneya]

Nah only Poma had the Russia problem and had to change it

Fair enough, for some reason I decided both were Russian lol

dude hardly can write a female MC route

Am I the only one who is fine with that route? Sometimes you don't want an in-depth romance, just to flirt left and right while bashing heads in. Jack's reactions to it are funny, too.

 

[God]

Fair enough, for some reason I decided both were Russian lol


Am I the only one who is fine with that route? Sometimes you don't want an in-depth romance, just to flirt left and right while bashing heads in. Jack's reactions to it are funny, too.

Probably my female friends dislike both Poma and AC only because she thinks the Female ROs are better. Well Poma they get nothing lol.

 

[MalloryV]

I mean the one of the problems I find is that they try or may e want to try but you've seen how much hate can happen from a simple mistake. Now I get the point of why not do research? Why not speak to authors that have experience doing so?

However the mass produced books we get in the industry especially in romance I never/rarely see a female author write a Male centred MC in a romance book. shouldn't we hate on authors shitty practices? Instead of hating on them not being about to write something to just suit your needs?

For me it's simple: If you write something, do it more or less well and listen to criticism.

There's nothing wrong with games where you can only be a man or a woman, but if you give me the option to be one or the other, both have to be treated fairly.

It means that you don't just focus on romances for the Male MC, and don't write with him in mind alone.

Psychologically and biologically, women and men function differently, and we treat the same gender and the opposite gender differently; it's something unconscious.

No one forced the author to make it possible to play as a girl, let alone have male romances, but if they did include them, they should at least treat them fairly.

Obviously, these are things that can be fixed if the players simply tell the author and they listen and decide to do something about it.

 

[seneya]

Well Poma they get nothing lol.

Ruo? Xiwen? Sure, they don't get much romantic content, still not nothing.
I get that giving some ROs more content than others is not ideal, but it just feels so funny that people will complain about the lack of romance even in a non-romance-focused game. It's like everything is obligated to cater to the romance crowd nowadays.

It means that you don't just focus on romances for the Male MC, and don't write with him in mind alone.

What about authors who do the opposite with female-coded MCs and "dominating" male(-coded) ROs?

 

[MalloryV]

Ruo? Xiwen? Sure, they don't get much romantic content, still not nothing.
I get that giving some ROs more content than others is not ideal, but it just feels so funny that people will complain about the lack of romance even in a non-romance-focused game. It's like everything is obligated to cater to the romance crowd nowadays.

What about authors who do the opposite with female-coded MCs and "dominating" male(-coded) ROs?

It's the same, I haven't said at any point that there is a difference, but we were talking about POMA, and not, for example, Wayhaven or other games of that type that also make the same mistake.

It's like "I like vanilla" and another person responds "So you hate chocolate!"

And again, my main problem isn't even the Male Coded MC, it's the simple fact that if you've put romance, give equal attention to everyone.

Simply because you chose to put it there, and at least give your all so that the people who choose those characters get content too.

 

[seneya]

It's like "I like vanilla" and another person responds "So you hate chocolate!"

Fair enough. Tbf you did write "for male MCs", not "for certain gender MCs"

it's the simple fact that if you've put romance, give equal attention to everyone.

I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think that getting less romance content in a game not centered around romance is necessarily that bad, but fine, it's not the hill I want to die on.

 

[BiscuitB]

For me it's simple: If you write something, do it more or less well and listen to criticism.
There's nothing wrong with games where you can only be a man or a woman, but if you give me the option to be one or the other, both have to be treated fairly.
It means that you don't just focus on romances for the Male MC, and don't write with him in mind alone.
Psychologically and biologically, women and men function differently, and we treat the same gender and the opposite gender differently; it's something unconscious.
No one forced the author to make it possible to play as a girl, let alone have male romances, but if they did include them, they should at least treat them fairly.
Obviously, these are things that can be fixed if the players simply tell the author and they listen and decide to do something about it.

I don't disagree with some of your points.
Yes they should listen to criticism and take it on board, it might not all be true but some can be. I agree that if your going to include a Male MC that would should provide the same attention you do to the female MC.
I don't agree about forcing, we've seen it enough times on tumblr where authors given into peer pressure/force to change thing so that the masses of fans, that have harrassed the author make the change. It then becomes a fan made story not the author and yes we can go on about how it's the author to blame but it happens anyway. But hey like you said not much we can do about it if the author don't take it on critically.

 

[MalloryV]

I don't agree about forcing, we've seen it enough times on tumblr where authors given into peer pressure/force to change thing so that the masses of fans, that have harrassed the author make the change. It then becomes a fan made story not the author and yes we can go on about how it's the author to blame but it happens anyway. But hey like you said not much we can do about it if the author don't take it on critically.

Obviously I didn't talk about extreme changes, but that make playing enjoyable. For example, I don't like how in some revenge stories, you are not allowed to be angry or vengeful. I almost never take the more violent path of revenge, but I understand the frustration of many of not being able to do it even if it makes sense with the character you are playing.

I don't remember the game name, but it's the one where you play as heirs who see your entire family die and are married against your will. Playing and trying all the options and combinations, I never felt like my character was truly traumatized, angry, or even sad. It seemed like the author halfway through gave up on writing a story with the gravity of those themes.

And I understand why people want the author to make changes that make sense for the story, the protagonist, and the themes discussed.

I hope you understand me, because I'm not good at explaining, especially in English.

I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think that getting less romance content in a game not centered around romance is necessarily that bad, but fine, it's not the hill I want to die on.

The point is that if you include romance, even if it's not focused on it, there has to be at least some, especially if the female characters do receive content.

It's not a 'The game doesn't get any or very little romance because it's a game that doesn't focus on it'. It is a 'only one group actually receives content'.